Lubavitch XII

Part of the problem with Lubavitch is that they have no idea what is Chasidus, and what is plain Judaism. To say "Chasidus teaches" that every Jew has a chelek elokah mima'al is like saying "Chasidus teaches that G-d created the world in 7 days, the last of which was Shabbos."

Uh, no. This is not Chasidus, this is plain Judaism. The statement is in the Zohar, and quoted in all Misnagdishe writings, as well as Chasidic. If we don’t know what Chasidus is, it is not likely we will be able to understand its intricacies.


(And by the way, when the Tanya quotes a source for this from the Zohar, commenting on the posuk "And G-d blew into his nostrils a breath of life", that "He Who blows, blows from Himself", it is still a mystery to this day where in the Zohar it says this. It is nowhere in the Zohar to be found. The statement is in the Sefer HaPliah, but not in the Zohar. Another Chasidishe Sefer wants to interpret a different Zohar to arrive at the same conclusion, but as a quote, it is nowhere to be found. One of the big mysteries of the Tanya is where he got this Zohar from. Of course, the Baal HaTanya surely had something in mind when he wrote this, but what it is, is a big mystery.)

The difference between what these teachings say versus what the Lubavitcher Rebbe says is as follows:

If Reuven donates his kidney to Shimon, Shimon has a piece of Reuven in him, but he does not become Reuven. He is still Shimon with a piece of Reuven inside.

So too whatever piece of Hashem we have in us - on whatever level - it does not change us into Hashem. We are still us. Just with a part of Hashem inside.

But in order for the Lubavitcher Rebbe's point to be valid, this would not be enough. For even if you have the highest level of soul in you, part of Hashem Himself, since you are still you and not Hashem, bringing requests to you as a Rebbe would still constitute a memutza (go between), which the Lubavitcher Rebbe wants to be untrue.

So he has to make the Rebbe not just a Rebbe with a part of Hashem inside him, but he has to transform the identity of the Rebbe from rebbe to G-d Himself. That is the only way he will not be a go-between. That is clear from his "sources" (sic) where he would like Tzadikim to be called "G-d" or Moshe Rabbeinu referring to himself as G-d. The Tzadik is NOT merely identified as a Tzadik with G-d inside, but he is identified as G-d Himself, merely clothed in the body of a Tzadik. There is a big, big difference.

This is why, as is recorded in David Berger's book, a Chabad Mashpia in a certain school in Crown Heights had a poster of the Rebbe hung on the Mizrach wall of the classroom, towards which the students pray. When asked about the clear violation of Halachah involved - it is prohibited to pray toward a picture - the Mashpia answered that that Halachah only applies to regular humans. But the Rebbe is actually G-d in a body, so it is really G-d they are praying towards, not a human.

You should also be aware that there are Lubavitchers who understand the Rebbe's statement of Atzmus Umahus in a body completely different than you do - even though you are mistaken as well. They take it to refer to the Lubavitcher Rebbe only and nobody else in history - not Moshe, not David Hamelech - nobody. The following is a quote from a booklet authored by a Rabbi Zushe Rivkin "In honor of the Rebbe shlita - Melech HaMoshiach":

"This is what Moshiach is, as the Rebbe shlita said at the beginning of his reign, 'that a Rebbe is G-d clothed in a physical body" [atzmus ain sof hislavesh b'guf gashmi!!!] This concept appeared in our generation only, since that is Moshiach...for all the Tzadikim beginning from Adam HaRishon reached high levels of connections with Hashem, but in Moshiach will be completed the purpose of the world, namely, 'G-d wanted to find a place to live in the lower realm', and therefore only in him [Moshiach] does He [G-d] clothe His self and His essence, just as a person lives with his whole essence and self in a house, so too the created existance is a home for the Real Existance [i.e. G-d], and this concept happens in actuality with regard to Moshiach. This is what is meant by the phrase "A Rebbe is the self of the Ain Sof clothed in a physical body."

Feh.

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I read Rabbi Berger's book. He does blame the Rebbe for the Meshichists but very apologetically. He refers to the Rebbe's statements, which clearly indicate that he is Moshiach, as hard to believe and disturbing, but he stops short of calling the Rebbe a Meshichist, for whatever reason.

Rabbi Berger seems to be an expert in Jewish-Chritian theological relationships, contrasts and interaction, and is tackling the Meshichist problem from the vantage point of its similarity to Christianity. His book does not seem to intend on explaining where Lubavitch veered away from Chasidus or how Chabad can be vulnerable to such blasphemous beliefs.

Regarding what I said previously about the shechita of someone who believes that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is "G-d in a body" being invalid, I saw that in David Berger's book he quotes Rav Elyashev shlita as saying the same thing. That is, the shechitah of someone who believes the Lubavitcher Rebbe is "G-d in a body" is invalid because the shochet is an idol-worshiper.

Rabbi Berger's book is very informative, but what I don’t understand is why he is surprised. It is not a chidush that people are not going to be interested in a protracted battle with Chabad. This is because of their vast influence, their tendency to harass and take revenge on anyone who comes out against them, and because there's no end to such a war.

What Chabad does when confronted with Torah evidence against them, is to flood the arena with quote after quote and source after source and then saying "See? The other side doesn't know what they are talking about!"

After a bit of analysis, however, it becomes clear that their sources and quotes, though related to the topic at hand, do not defend them at all, and do not even address the specific charge leveled against them.

So now you must take up the tedious task of explaining each source, showing how Chabad took them out of context.

But for each clarification you have, they just flood the arena with more irrelevant information, geometrically multiplying the complexity of the whole issue to the point where the average observer just looks at it as a never-ending, 2-sides-to-the-story disagreement, and faults those who attack Chabad for not recognizing that there is another side to the story.

The reality, however, is that their "sources" are nothing but a colossal collection of distortions and misapplied information, as people who know how to learn can tell.

Their tactic is to throw a lot information at you making it seem as if there are answers.

So imagine if the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah would come out against Lubavitch. The next day there would be a tedious and invovled answer, replete with bales of quotes from Chasidishe and Kabbalistic works, 'showing' how the Rabbonim are "misnagdim" and they don't understand "Chasidus". Any further involvement from the Moetzes would be met with more quotes. And although none of the dozens quotes or the sources will justify their actions, the sheer quantity of information and the accompanying rhetoric will make it look like there are, at least, two sides to the story.

It would only make things worse. It would look like a dispute rather than an expose, and Chabad would say they sufficiently answered everything anyway, and the average baal HaBayis would not know the difference.

This is why the Satmar Rebbe ZTL would not involve himself in a protracted battle with these people. "P'giasam raah", he held - any encounter with them is not good. "What should I do - get into a fight with an idiot (shotah)?" the Satmar Rav said when asked if he is going to come out against the Lubavitcher Rebbe on a specific issue. His disagreements with Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL or Rav Moshe Feinstein ZTL he considered an issue of differences of Torah opinion, and so he had no problem battling hand-to-hand with them, as is the way of Torah disputes. But his problems with the Lubavitcher Rebbe he considered an issue of simply a lack of common sense on the part of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, so he didn't bother.

Then there is the case of harassment. Rabbi Gurwitz in England wrote a Sefer long ago on the laws of Kings in the Rambam, where Moshiach is discussed. Of course, in the course of his writing he explained why the Lubavitch explanation of the Rambam is untenable.

He never heard the end of it. Threatening and harassing phone calls, furniture deliveries made to his home, and various other kinds of harassment were heaped upon him by the Chabad chasidim.

And that’s just one story out of many. Nobody wants to get involved with this kind of Mafia.

And the Modern Orthodox, whose ambivalence greatly surprises Rabbi Berger, are surely not going to take up this battle. Accusing other Orthodox Jews of heresy, idolatry, and other assorted crimes of such nature is not their forte. They have for generations denigrated those who leveled accusations of heresy and idolatry against them, claiming that their being "Orthodox" (whatever that means) makes such claims intolerant and even fanatical.

And now we expect them to call this wonderfully tolerant, outreach-oriented, group of Orthodox Jews who accept them (as opposed to the Traditional Orthodox), whose Rebbe studied in the Sorbonne and is well versed even in secular subjects, and is the epitome of what a Rebbe should be according to their philosophy, idol worshipers?

Nope. It's not happening.

Not to mention the financial and political pressure that Chabad wields especially in the circles that the Modern Orthodox travel, and depend on for funding.

I also feel that Rabbi Berger overstates the significance that this debacle has on Judaism, and world Jewry in general. He talks in terms of Judaism being changed before our eyes. They are not taken seriously enough in the Torah world to have an impact on Judaism.

The key phrase here is "the Torah world." Judaism has already been ravaged by the Conservatives, Reform, Zionists, and various other groups. The Messianism of Lubavitch will certainly harm many Jews, but it will not change authentic Judaism. It will merely remove Chabad from the roster of its practitioners. And anyway, they had one foot out the door already.

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How many Lubavitcher teens have said that if they wanted to stop putting on Tefillin their parents would "be nice", but if they wanted to go learn in Ponivezh Yeshivah, they'd be kicked out of their homes.

Just like, if I were to deny Hashem's Kingship over the world, c"v, those Lubavitchers would consider me a "pintele yid" who really wants to do Mitzvos and deserves Kiruv, but if I deny the Lubavitcher Rebbe's Kinship, they have me in mind during V'Lamashinim.

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Don't bother Lubavitch about their mass-minyanim. There are real,
serious problems in Chabad. This is like when a shrink wants to see if
a kid is crazy so he shows him a piturec of a guy with one hand, 2 toes,
no nose and one ear, and then asks "OK, what's missing in the picture?"
"A tie", he says.
Even though the tie may be missing, but if that’s what you focus on,
then there's something wrong. This minyan business is not the issue.
The issues are the changing and twisting of the hashkofos of chabad
chasidus into something it never was nor was ever intended to be;
their idolatrous perception of what their rebbe is; the self-isolation
of their group as they elevate themselves, in their own minds, to the
main element of Klall Yisroel (as their Rebbe said, when Moshiach
comes, only Chabad chasidim will be sitting in the front - everyone
else will be in the back), which includes the absurd notion that Tanya
is the meat and potatoes of the Torah curriculum ("All their problems
stem from the fact that they believe they are Klall Yisroel, and
everyone else are branches - Rav Hutner ZTL); the distorted and
corrupt Torahs that their Rebbe told them (Moshiach will build the
Bais Hamikdash in 770 after which it will be transported to Eretz
Yisroel; Chabad chasidim - and only chabad chasidim - do not have to
sleep in a sukka on sukkos; a Rebbe is the self and essence of G-d in a
body, ad nauseum); the Meshichism, which was started and maintained by
the Rebbe himself; the refusal of the Rebbe to obey his superiors and
stop his deviant ways; the distortion of the Derech HaBaal Shem Tov
into some weird personality cult which, with the replacement of the
Hashem with the Rebbe as prime; and many many more aspects of deviant
Torah hashkofo, much of which has been quoted and documented and
discussed in the many pages above. Please refer.
The problem is not so much they currently have no leader, but rather
the nature of the leader and leadership that they have had for the
past 50 years. His leadership included either explicitly deviant
distortions of true Torah and Chasidus or sufficiently ambiguous and
discombobulated teachings such that the average and even above average
Chabad chosid will honestly understand them to mean the wildest and most absurd things. It has become a cartoon of Judaism and Chasidus, a development that
was predicted by our Gedolei Yisroel over a half a century ago. The
Brisker Rav ZTL, after reading the last Rebbe's first sicha (1951 I believe) insightfully commented, "This meshugenah is trying to convince himself that he is Moshiach". When the Satmar Rav ZTL heard (in 1959 I believe) that the Lubavitcher
Rebbe was teaching Tanya over the radio, to Jews who don't even know
who the name of the 3 Avos, he accordingly had extremely negative
things to say about him, and when then asked if he is going to come
out against the Lubavitcher Rebbe for doing this his answer was, "What
should I do -- pick fight with an idiot (shotah)? (This appears in the
Satmar Rav's writings too). The Lubavitcher Rebbe said that the main
reason for his Kiruv movement is that it "brings Moshiach", as per
Moshiach's statement to the Besh"t that he (moshiach) will come when
the Besht's Torahs will de spread; therefore, we have to spread
chasidus (i.e. of course, Tanya and CHabad) everywhere) - Kuntres
Vhachai Yiten el Libo, stement of Lubab Rebbe to Divever Rebbe). In
Divrei Yoel (Tzav) he points of that this of course was told to the
Baal Shem Tov, and applied to him and his generation, "as opposed to
the opinion of idiots (shotim) who say that this can be fulfilled in our generation."
The problem is not their mass-minyanim.
The problem was not a lack of leadership; it was the nature thereof.

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That Kol Koreh does not say that those people do not believe the Rebbe
is moshiach - they say not to publicize that he is. Big difference. In
Chabad nobody is impressed -- they underatand the kol koreh as
designed to squelch the ridicule and laughter that is directed at Chabad these days from every frum place on earth. .

In fact, Lubabs say that several rabbis on that Kol Koreh stated clearly that it was meant merely to deflect the jokes people were making about chabad - it was meant only for us "outsiders" (Boruch Hashem we are outsiders) but not for them.

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There are actually some, such as Stoliner Chasidim, and others, who do not say Machnisei Rachamim because it is using a sort of intermediary. But most people do say it, and the reason is because Malachim are not intermediaries. And intermediary is someone (or something) that acts on behalf of you and gives your Tefilos to Hashem. Malachim are not baalei bechirah - they have no free will, and so they cannot do
anything at all unless Hashem Himself already told them to do so. You can't ask a malach to intercede for you with Hashem. A Malach is only a "shliach" of Hashem - it has no will of its own.
So when we say machnisei rachamim, that the malachim should "place"
the tefilos in front of Hashem, it is merely a poetic way of saying that Hashem should send His Malachim to accept our Tefilos. No other possible way for Malachim to bring our Tefilos to Hashem exists, except and unless Hashem told them to. They are, after all, only Hashem's "robots."

And therefore, since in order for the maalch to bring our tefilos to Hashem, Hashem has to first tell the malach to do it (the maalch cannot do it on his own) by praying that the malachim do that, we are in reality praying that Hashem should TELL the malach to do that, which means Hashem should accept our Tefilos himself. For if Hashem does tell the malach to bring Him the tefilah - Hashem has already
decided to accept it. The initiative to accept the tefilah, and to
have the malach bring it, comes only from Hashem. The malach has no initiative on his own. As opposed to an intermediary, who is a messenger of us, not Hashem,
and acts on his initiative - or ours - to bring our tefilos to Him.
The diference is, the malach is Hashem's shliach to bring Him our
Tefilos, whereas an intermediary is our shliach to bring our Tefilos to Hashem.

That having been said, please note that the Lubavitcher Rebbe did NOT say that we can use an intermediary; he said that we can NOT have an intermediary. He said a Rebbe is NOT an intermediary at all. Rather, he is G-d's essence and elf, placed in a body. Therefore, a Rebbe does not count as an intermediary.

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This is taught in Lubab schools as the first line of defense against Torah Jews: "If you didn't learn the Rebbe's sichos then you have no right to talk." First of all, yes, I did. In fact, the more I familiarize myself with the sichos, the more I see that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was off the derech.

When I was a kid, I used to read "Talks and Tales" and "A Thought for the Week" regularly. I had nothing against the Lubavitcher Rebbe or his Chasidim. When I was a kid I even got a Lubavitcher Rebbe dollar once, given to me by a Lubavitcher friend of mine (PS - I have since spent that dollar).

But then, as I grew older and began seeing the teachings that the Lubavitcher Rebbe has been feeding his chasidim, I understood what so many Gedolim had against him. His terribly twisted teachings started it. Then his dishonesty (either to himself or to others, I am not sure, nor does it matter), and his bain odom l'chaviero problems, such as his declaration that the reason Satmar does not want Lubavitch missionaries in Williamsburg teaching children behind their parent's back in clandestine meetings where they would tell kids to lie to their parents about the existence of those meetings, and that they now have an opportunity to learn the Torah of Moshiach in the form of the Lubavitcher Rebbe's sichos", is because "they (Satmar) is against the teachings of the Alter Rebbe", or that Rav Shach's tefillin are not kosher - both plain lies, and whether he convinced himself that these crazy things were true or he knew they weren't true and merely tried to convince others doesn’t matter.

In fact, more than once have I met people, some talmdei chachamim - and some even Rebbes! - who, upon discussing Lubavitch suggest that the charges against them aren't as serious as some make them out to be, my response is always to quote things that the Lubavitcher Rebbe said in his sichos, showing that the charges are, if anything, understated, and invariably the other party is shocked by what he sees that the Lubavitcher Rebbe has said, and never again wonders why the Tzadikei Hador refer to the Lubavitcher Rebbe as either a "meshugineh" (The Brisker Rav) or a "shoteh" (the Satmar Rav) or disseminating "stupidity and ignorance" (Rav Shach), never mind the avodah zorah of rebbe worship.

In fact, the biggest weapon that Bnei Torah have against the Lubavitcher Rebbe is to show people his sichos. Someone sent me an email saying that he was involved in some Lubavitch discussion on some other website, and they allowed almost anything to be said, but when he posted a collection of the lubavitcher rebbe’s own statements, they deleted it behind his back because it was too nasty to keep online.

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Lubavitch XI

The reason for the volume of information here is because is it proportionate to the veritable unending posts I receive almost daily from Lubavitchers trying to answer of justify their and their Rebbe's behavior. There isn’t another single thread - not the existence of G-d, not seminaries, eating disorders, or Zionism - which attracts so many men women and children emphatically loyal to nonsense who believe they are expert enough at halachah and hashkafa and chasidus to explain the absurd. Scroll up. We have actual women teaching high school who requested to reprint the material here so that she and her class of HS girls can find the answers together in class to claims against their actions that the greatest Torah authorities have already said have no answer.

There is no other area where young saplings -teenage boys and girls are taught from birth, distorted versions of Torah and plain lies about opposing Tzadikim (including that they are murders) and history in order for them to grow up to be crooked and deformed giant oak trees in an entire forest of such deformed tress that all think they are THE main source for joy to God in all of Klall Yisroel, and that everyone else - the Lubavitcher Rebbe said this - when Moshiach finally comes, will be sitting in the back of the Chabad Chasidim.

There does not exist in Klall Yisroel such brainwashing and distortion for reality as there does in Lubavitch. Here’s an example of how these people are brought up. This is from a Chabad website designed for very young children (the comments in the brackets are mine)http://www.rabbiriddle.org/rabbi-riddle/03-15.htm

"This week's Torah Portion, V'Yechi, contains the passing of our forefather Jacob. However, our Sages say, "Jacob our Father did not die. Just as his children are alive, so is he alive!" This teaches us that the soul continues even after the body passes away." {No, it does not. All it teaches is that Yaakov - and only Yaakov - even after his passing from this world, is as alive as his children who are still here. They are learning teaching just opposite - that just as Yaakov was alive his children are too. The Chazal say Yaakov exclusively lo meis. They just extended it to everyone. Look where this is headed...}


Our Sages teach that only the body returns to dust. The Jewish soul (as well as the soul of a righteous non-Jew) According to most opinions, never "dies" or is destroyed. {This is just not true at all, and misleading even according to what they want to say. But it is not the particular point of brainwashing that I want to point out here, so it will have to wait for another time. } When it has finished its job in this world, it simply continues in the next! Righteous people (tzaddikim) in the next world can continue to help people in this world. Even after he passed way, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi returned to his home and made Kiddush for his family on Shabbos!" {This is where their distortions are designed to lead. Rav Yehuda Hanasi was resurrected in a body and returned to this world as a physical human being, like everyone else. In such a case, he was able to make Kiddush. But this does NOT apply to tzadikim who are not resurrected from the dead in physical bodies.}

The idea here is obvious - teach little kids that the Lubavitcher Rebbe, like Yaakov Avinu, is still alive, and like Rav Yehuda HaNasi, returns to "continue to help his people."

This is what little kids are taught. And there is much, much more. It is no wonder that by the time they are teenagers, and you explain to them that hello, your rebbe is dead, you don't say shlita, he is not moshiach, he is not g-d in a body, the bais hamikdash will not be built first in 770 and then shipped to eretz yisroel (their rebbe said that too), they act as if you are going against the entire Torah. Their torah, true. But that's not the same Torah that was taught for the past 3,000 years since Har Sinai, including chasidus.

This material is not to show someone is wrong, but rather, in the interest of not ignoring the misguidedness of our fellow Jews, to correct the endless stream of distortions that have been fed to innocent fellow Jews.

Would you rather we gave up on them?

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Nobody said Rav Nachman ZTL is still alive; they merely follow his teachings. There are those in Breslov who are a bit over the edge and they are indeed considered crazy. And the main difference is that Rav Nachman himself never caused such behavior. Whereas the Lubavitcher Rebbe did. Rav Nachman insisted that they don’t even refer to him as an official "Rebbe" (you will never heard him be called The Breslover Rebbe); whereas the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that a Rebbe is G-d clothed in a body. Rav Nachman never twisted the Halacha or Hashkafa, whereas the Lubavitcher Rebbe did.

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There is no such Gemora that says "when you have a choice to be mehudar in mitzvot or do some-thing very bidieved because your Rebbe told you to, you should follow your Rebbe to show you respect him." Even the Lubavitcher Rebbe did not quote any such thing in his sichah when he tried to explain this. There is no Halachah anywhere. Acting like your rebbe, honoring your rebbe, or any of that is no heter not to sleep in the sukkah.

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If you will concede that "learned rabbis" are making no sense when they say the rebbe is alive then clearly they CAN say something stupid. These are the same people who once gave us "logical" reasons that the rebbe will definitely not die. They are also the same ones whose "logical" reasons for saying the rebbe is moshiach included the fact that moshiach "is a regular living person" (remember when they used to say that?).

There is no logic in this whole thing. There is only wishful thinking.

What makes you think that a learned rabbi cannot end up in la la land? Throughout history, most deviant groups were started by seriously learned rabbis. From Korach to Yeravam ben Nevat, down. Do you think they were less learned, less "ehrlich", or more vulnerable to going off track than these rabbis are? All our lives we learn that what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, and the Yetzer Horah can win over even learned people, and if people are saying things that are wrong, then there's nothing to discuss, no matter who says them.

Sometimes it may be difficult for the average Jew to know what’s wrong and right, but this time it's a no-brainer.

And nobody has a right to believe things about Judaism unless it is part of Judaism. We have no right to mix our own wishful thinking into our religion. Once we start down that path, we travel straight down, with no end in sight. And, this wrong attitude of "let them believe what they want" is what allowed the next step to happen, where they believe that a dead person is alive.

If someone has a messed up belief in Judaism you do him no favors by letting him believe it. False religious beliefs can do only harm. And sometimes they can be deadly.

Among other things, they prevent Moshiach from coming. As the Baal HaTanya said, when they asked him "If so many Jews are waiting for Moshiach, why hasn't he come yet?" ... said the Baal HaTanya,

... "Well maybe the Moshiach that they are waiting for is not the same Moshiach that Hashem wants to send."

An important lesson.

One more thing. This issue is NOT dividing "The Jewish People," which means all of Klall Yisroel as a whole. To those outside Lubavitch, including Chassidim, this is not an issue. It never was. If this issue is "dividing" anyone, it is only Lubavitch that it is dividing. Please do not think that the whole world is thinking it. And, it is important to note, not all of Lubavitch believes it themselves.

Instead of giving credence to bad beliefs, we should be learning Mussar from this whole debacle. What caused this mess? What COULD cause it? Soul searching is what should be done now, so that such a thing never happens again.

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You see, I do not doubt that there is sinas chinam in the world - against Lubavitch like against anyone else. I've been to the websites, and I've read the Seforim. I've asked all the questions. There are no justifications for what is happening in certain circles of Lubavitch that any Torah scholar would take seriously. I can understand why you perhaps cannot differentiate between real and concocted Torah, but you do have a responsibility to at least say "I don't know" rather than accuse others of sinas chinam because you cannot answer their questions.

It’s like the guy who gets a traffic ticket and goes into court telling the judge that the police officer is an anti-semite, and goes on and on about all the prejudices he has been subject to because he is a Jew.

"That's all very nice," says the judge. "But DID YOU pass the red light, or not?"

If let's say someone would say "it doesn't sit well with me that the Lubavitcher Rebbe said higiyah zman geulaschem - your time of redemption has arrived - so therefore I decided he's wrong!", what would you say?

Or if someone said, "You know, this whole Kiruv rechokim thing disturbs me. Therefore I say it's wrong". Would that make sense to you?

If one of the Meforshim - we'll take the Ohr HaChaim as a random example - says something that to you is disturbing, don't you think that whatever disturbed you he was already aware of and if it didn't disturb him he had a reason why not?

The Teshuvos Divrei Chaim (The Sanzer Rav ZT"L -- considered one of the greatest, or the greatest - depends who you ask - Chassidishe Rebbe and Torah giant of his time) YD 105 writes about a certain teacher in a school who said that the commentary of the Ohr HaCham HaKodosh was not written with Ruach HaKodesh, that if he really said such a thing, he is an Apikores!

When a doctor tells someone that r"l they have cancer, and they say "Well I don't like that, so I will say it's not true", does that make sense? Or even if there is a disagreement and one doctor says it's cancer and the other says it's not, do you think it makes sense for someone to say "I like the 'not' diagnosis better, so I will go with that"?

Unless you're a doctor, or you've seriously researched the issue at hand, you gotta be crazy to ignore what an expert says, even if you don't like it. Same thing here.

You cannot just decide which Meforshim are right or wrong without either solid proof and authority to do so. It's silly.

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The Yismach Moshe writes in his commentary on Tehillim that if you point out a specific person as being Moshiach you are violating the oath that G-d made the Jews swear in Gemora kesuvos 111a not to "push" the Geulah in before its time [rather, we must wait for the proper time], the punishment for which, says the Gemora is that Hashem will allow the Jews to be hunted down and killed as if they were animals in the field!

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If a large group of people come together and name Mashiach, he is not Halachicly considered Mashiach. Although I have heard this from meshichistin, there is no such thing anywhere. It's just another forgery, out of thin air.

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It’s ridiculous to say "Well I say the Rebbe is Moshiach and you can't prove him not!" because by that logic, we can say I am Moshiach and you can prove me not! The psychoness here is that they invented out of thin air without any reason whatsoever that the Rebbe is moshiach. Now the fact is everyone is NOT Moshiach until you determine that he is. The onus is NOT on those who say anybody is NOT Moshiach but on those who say he IS Moshiach. This is not a scientific theory that works with theorizing and falsification. Even a theory has to have some backing. But these guys aren’t even theorizing, they declared their Rebbe to be the King Redeemer of all Jews.

To do so, before Moshiach is really known, is a terrible sin. As the Yismach Moshe said (quoted above), it is in violation of Hashem's demand that we not begin the end of the Golus until He says so. The punishment for declaring a specific person Moshiach before the real revelation, it says, is that Jews all over the world will be hunted down like animals (that’s a quote) and killed by the Goyim.

Also, it prevents Moshiach's arrival.

So if someone has a fantasy that he WANTS his Rebbe to be Moshiach, that's his business. But to declare him to really be Moshiach, which what these people have done, is a terrible sin, not to mention foolishness.

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Lubavitch has often ran around making up stories, and purposely misinform Rabbis in order to try to get their support. If the rabbis ever find out what Lubavitch is really doing - as opposed to what they said they are doing - the support is retracted. This happens all the time, but with all the retractions and he-said-he-said rumors flying around confusion still reigns, and that's how these rumors survive.

Example: The following is a translation of a letter written by the Debreciner Rav ZT"L dated Bechukosai 5748:

"Regarding what I wrote on Sunday, Parshas Shemini 5748 supporting the [Chabad] Lag BaOmer parade, and that the honor of Hashem will be enhanced by it, since I have seen that not a single Chareidi rabbi supports the parade, and that the messengers from Lubavitch lied to me about it, and specifically since I subsequently found out that at the parade there will be men and women mixed, and who are not dressed Tzniusdik ... and that the backers of the parade refused to heed the summons to go to a din Torah by the daughter of the Rebbe Rayatz of Lubavitch ZT"L, and they also added sin upon sin by going to secular court without permission of Bais Din, in which they committed an overwhelming and terrible sin, which causes the ears of anyone who hears it to tremble ... therefore, I want nothing to do with them, and I hereby retract what I wrote previously (i.e. my letter of support), and I hereby convey my Torah opinion that where there was supposed to be an increase in the honor of Hashem there will be instead a public desecration of Hashem's name and Bitul Torah, and Cholilah that anybody - man or woman, adult or child - should go to the [Chabad] Lag BaOmer parade...

[Rabbi] Moshe Stern
Debreciner Rav"

And the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L was vehemently opposed to Lubavitch. He said that after he's done with exposing Zionism, his next project is to write a Sefer exposing Lubavitch. In his Divrei Yoel (Tzav) he calls them - including the Rebbe - "idiots" (tipshim) for the idea that because Moshiach told the Baal Shem Tov that in his generation that the spreading of Chasidus is what is needed to bring Moshiach, that today, in our generation, the same thing applies. This, of course, is the Lubavitcher Rebbe's main reason for his Kiruv project. That since the Baal Shem Tov was told that spreading Chasidus would bring Moshaich, so we have to teach Tanya to all the Jews in the world and then Moshiach will come today. Oy. Is there any question why Lubavitch was so opposed by a great Tzadik like that if they have such ideas?? "Tipshim" he calls them. And that's not the worst thing he had to say about contemporary Chabad. He told the Bochurim in his Yeshiva that they may learn Tanya - for it is a holy sefer - but nowadays they have to be very careful since the Lubavitchers today twist the Tanya into ideas that are similar to Zionism (i.e. Meshichism, which, like Zionism, is the ushering in of Geulah behaviors before the proper time).

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Jacob Neusner is a well-known big Apikores and ignoramus. Almost nothing he says ever makes sense. (And he's written like 100 books - I am not exaggerating - so that's quite a feat!)

His position on Chabad Messianism takes the entire thing much too seriously. It is not a "danger to Judaism", certainly not one of the biggest we face. It is - and was, for much damage is already done - a danger to Chabad and its followers. They also distort Chabad's position, though it's bad enough without any distortions.

That having been said, the book is correct in saying that the Chabad Messianism is an absolutely outrageous distortion of Judaism.

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If someone believes that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is G-d in a body, like the Rebbe writes, or like that Rabbi Rifkin (quoted elsewhere) writes, then clearly he is an idol worshiper. Even though he thinks he’s following the Torah.

Believing the Rebbe is Moshiach is wrong but does not disqualify a shchita. I know numerous Roshei Yeshiva and Talmidei Chachamim who will not eat Lubavitch shchitah because of the massive amount of Lubavitchers who believe in idol worship. Not all do, but the only reason we are allowed to rely on a shochet in general is because there is not even a prominent minority of disqualified ones. The pokim say explicitly that in a place where there is a prominent minority (miut hamatzui) of unsuited shochtim, you cannot eat from the shchita unless you know that the shochet is not one of them. Certainly if the majority are posul.

So the answer is, it depends on the "metzius". If there is a good chance - even if not a majority - that a given shochet from a given place believes that the Rebbe is G-d, then you cannot eat from that schitah without investigation. If the overwhelming majority do not believe that, then you may rely on it.

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A lot of Lubavitchers don't eat from Meshichist shechitah. Of course, I can’t tell you what's going on in Shamayim, but its hard to miss the Midah K'neged Midah, where first Lubavitch illegitimately slandered and prohibited someone else's shechitah, and now, they are the only Orthodox group in the world where so many of them won't even eat from their own shechitah.

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Lubavitch X

The reason our Gedolim have not embarked on a so-called "Moshiach campaign" is the same reason they have not instituted the type of Kiruv programs Chabad does. Namely, it is not what the Torah wants.

The Chabad method of Kiruv, where you send somebody out to live among the Goyim and non-Jews without any Torah community is opposed by the Torah, as we find in Pirkei Avos, that even if you can accomplish a lot in terms of Kiruv by living in a non-Makom Torah, you should not go there, as Rav Yosi Ben Kisma explained.

Regarding the "Moshiach campaign," it, too, is counter to what the Torah wants, and only serves to make sure Moshiach is gets further away from coming, r"l. Moshiach will not come until people give up hope of Geulah, the Gemora says (Sanhedrin 97). Moshiach will only come when we are NOT thinking about him, it says.

We pray for Moshiach every day, and we are obligated to yearn for his coming, but the specifics about when who and how Moshiach’s arrival will take place, is forbidden for us to ponder, and it pushes the Geulah further away.

The reason is as follows:

When Moshiach comes, it will be the total and final downfall of evil in the world. The Satan therefore exerts all his energies to make sure Moshiach does not come, or to delay his arrival as much as possible, for his (the Satan’s) very survival depends on this delay.

So dedicated is the Satan to Moshiach’s not coming, says the Arizal, that Moshiach’s Neshomah had to “sneak in” to this world in a way that the Satan would not notice, through an act of incest between Lot and his daughters. And then through Rus and Boaz. The Satan and his minions, who are so on the lookout to destroy for anything that has to do with Moshiach, would exert all his energies to prevent the great soul of Moshiach from entering the world. So Hashem arranged it to slip in, in a way that the Satan never expected.

The Yismach Moshe (Chasidic master and Halachic authority, and student of the Seer of Lublin) explains that this is why the Halachah of “amoni vlo amonis, moavi vlo moavis” was forgotten (or: hidden) from the masses until the time came for its application. For this was the Halachah that allowed King David to enter into Klall Yisroel. And King David's entry needs to remain "under the radar" of the Satan.

We must understand that the Satan and his terrorist groups are lying in wait for Moshiach. Any hint of his arrival will automatically attract the attention of the Satan. Moshiach will be "snuck in" to this world by Hashem in a way that we are not allowed to contemplate. The Satan knows Moshiach is coming. But when how and who must remain hidden from the Satan. We pray and yearn for Moshiach’s coming in general. But maneuvering Moshiach into the world safe from the radar and cross hairs of the Satan is Hashem's job. Only Hashem can accomplish that. But one thing we know: Hashem must bring Moshiach into the world in a way the Satan least expects it, and is unprepared for it.

The poor person will not be forgotten forever, but the hope of the poor will be lost forever. (Tehilim 9). Explains the Bina L'Itim: The poor Klall Yisroel in Golus will not be lost forever. Moshiach WILL come. BUT! The hope of the poor will be lost forever. The way and the vision that we have of Moshiach's arrival will NOT happen. The Geulah will not happen the way we think it will, it cannot. We don't know how Moshiach will come, but one thing we do know is he will not come the way we expect him to come.

Moshiach can't come in an expected way. He was born under the radar and he will come under the radar. Hashem always hid the time of the final redemption from us. When Yaakov Avinu tried to reveal it, Hashem would not let. The prophets told of many things, but nothing about this. One reason given is to hide it from the Satan.

The Tefilah L'Moshe writes that declaring a particular person to be Moshiach violates the Gemora that says Moshiach will only come when we do NOT think about it. Meaning, any time we specify the details of Moshiach's arrival, we shove Moshiach straight into the crosshairs of the Satan. We need to pray for Moshiach, and to year for him, but the details we may not think about. The more we do think and talk about the details, the more we push Moshiach away and prevent his coming.

(PS: for a more complete treatment of this topic, see Divrei Yoel Naso p. 171-175)

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It is true that they not even refer to non-religious Jews as "Rechokim", while at the same time they have referred to the Gaon Rav Shach ZTL as "shockingly arrogant" (Gasus nora'ah) ... he has Chutzpah and nerve (azus) and arrogance (gasus) ... on them (i.e. Rav Shach and those who follow him) applies the statement that they and Hashem are unable to dwell in the same place, and that they nurse from the Nachash Hakadmoni - their homes are filled with snakes and scorpions!" (Kfar Chabad #93).

Snakes and scorpions, huh? Lovers of all Jews! Please! In issue #88 of Kfar Chabad they refer to Orthodox Jews who they do not like as "Amalek in chareidi clothing", in issue #85 their opponents are called "sons of Korach". Other Orthodox Jews are "a gang of anti-semitic hunters of blood, from the worst and the very lowest that has appeared in world Jewry in the last generation" (Kfar Chabad #99).

Never will you find such language against apikorsim or kofrim from chabad. Non-religious Jews are not even "rechokim" but those who keep Mitzvos can be called "amalek in chareidi clothing". Want to know why? Check this out:

"This is the unique style of Chabad: 'Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace', and whose tool is 'Ahavas Yisroel', and on the other hand - to wage a powerful awesome and uncompromising stand in a War of G-d against those who rise against G-d and His Messiah"! (Kfar Chabad #100).

"Against G-d and His Messiah". That’s a quote. What must one do to rebel against G-d and His Messiah? Desecrate Shabbos? Deny G-d's existence? Eat pork? Nope. Not even those who are not tinokos shenishbu. Rather, you have to be Rav Shach ZTL, you can be a Gaon and Tzadik and Gadol Hador, but if you don’t believe in their Rebbe - well of course you’re denying "His Messiah".

Among those described in the most vilifying terms there is not one Mechalel Shabbos, not one Kofer in Hashem's existence, not one eater of non-Kosher food. All are Orthodox Jews.

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They do put tefilin on goyim too, and it is wrong. Often they ask beforehand "Are you Jewish?", but not always.

Incidentally, if a Jew doesn’t believe in G-d, then he does not even get a Mitzvah for putting on Tefillin. If it will induce him to become frum down the road, fine, but if it’s a one time thing, it accomplished nothing.

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Avrohom Avinu did "conversions", not Kiruv, true, but Kiruv is way older than Lubavitch, way older than the Baal Shem Tov. The Chovos Halevovos describes what a tremendous Zechus it is, and throughout the generations we have strived to do it within Torah guidelines. Even Shabse Tzvi ys"v did Kiruv - Rav Yaakov Sapaortes ZTL, one of the great fighters against him, write how thousands upon thousands of Jews became frum because of Shabse Tzvi, mainly because they wanted to be prepared for Moshiach, which they believed Shabse Tzvi ys"v was.

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Avrohom avinu was the only Jew in the world so wherever he lived he lived among Goyim. And as he gathered his converts, they formed a community around him, so where he was always in some kind of Makom Torah, whatever was possible in those days.

Because Avrohom Avinu, an Av and a prophet, was able to live among the Goyim and survive, it does not prove at all that we can.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe not only sent people to do "shlichus" (sic) when they weren’t learning, but rather shlepped people screaming and kicking out of the Bais HaMedrash, telling them to close their seforim and go do Kiruv. One of these unfortunate souls was Shlomo Carlebach. When the Lubavitcher Rebbe told him he wants him to be his "shliach", Shlomo said "But I learn all day."

The Lubavitcher Rebbe's answer was "Stop thinking so much about yourself."

This story is recorded in the Sefer Lmaan Achai V'Raiai in an interview with Carlebach. Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL, who was Carlebach's Rosh Yeshiva at the time, was hurt and mortified at the Lubavitcher Rebbe's actions that ruined the life of Carlebach, causing him all his spiritual problems.

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"With all do respect to you people (cuz shach dosent deserve any) he was going to be rosh yeshivah in the chabad yeshivah in Lod Israel back in the 50's and when he tried to give a shiur he said peshat opposite of rashi and commented that rashi doesn’t understand the gemorah and neither does the rambam! so he wasent hierd for the job... and therefore he hates chabad and tried to do everything in his power to stop it!!! and by the way did you know that in Tzvvat Harivash (that's the testament of the baal shem tov) he says that in every generation there is a tzadik and there is the one which opposes him (or tries at least) i.e. sitra achrah and in this case sitra achra is only a dog compared too shach enough said!"

Um, oookay. I posted your post so that everyone can see what kind of mythology is taught in Chabad. I have heard numerous variations of this fairy tale, all similar to what you are saying, and, needless to say, all impossible. Any ben Torah, and certainly a godol hador, would never even think of saying such a thing. We have hundreds of shiruim and peirushim from Rav Shach ZTL and of course not a single one will have anything close to the "approach" that you are attributing to him. Not him, not his students, not their students, etc. Not a single one. lo minei v'lo miktzasei.

So thank you for enlightening us, and please do continue to provide us with more information on why Chabad is not accepted in the Torah world.

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There is no issur of loshon horah on alleged gedolim and manhigim, because klall yisroel has a right to know who their gedolim and authorities really are and how big or small or how real or phony they are.

And that's if you are revealing something that is not already known to the recipient of the information. But everything I said on the site about the Lubavitcher Rebbe are things that the Lubavitcher Rebbe himself has made public in his teachings and writings ---- I said absolutely nothing about the Lubavitcher Rebbe that would be loshon horah, even if it weren't a mitzvah in and of itself to explain to people that no, he is NOT moshiach, and no he is NOT a Torah authority, and no, do NOT believe what he says that we have been "blessed" with someone infinitely greater than everyone else in the generation who is its authority on ruchniyus and gasmiyus, and no, the bais hamikdash is not going to be built in 770, and that there is no heter to sleep outside of a sukkah because you’re mitztaer that you’re not mitztaer that you’re not on the level of your rebbe, and no, a rebbe is NOT atzmuso umahuso clothed in a body, ets etc etc

All I am doing is examining what the Lubavitcher Rebbe said and did and explaining what status those actions and statements have according to the Torah, as opposed to revealing loshon horah about him, which would mean hitherto unknown (to the listener at least) actions or statements.

I had no secret video cameras in 770. There is nothing here that the Lubavitcher Rebbe did not proudly proclaim.

But there IS an issur of hotzaas shem rah - slander - saying things that are lies. And so when the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that Rav Shach's tefillin are posul, or that the Satmar Chasidim are "against the teachings of the alter rebbe" and that’s why "they attacked" some lubavithchers that were missionizing children in WIlliansburgh, THAT was hotzoas shem rah of the worst kind.

What was the justification to hear and certainly to believe such loshon horah such lies - coming from your Rebbe?

There is none. It was assur for him to say those things as per the prohibition of hotzoas shem rah. And more.

The Gedolei Yisroel that also explained to us that the Lubavithcer Rebbe was a "shoteh" or a "mishugenah" or said "ignorant, falsified teachings" were also not saying loshon horah about him, but rather telling us what the Torah says about the man's teachings and actions, which we already knew about.

And those statements were made in public, to talmidim and more. And in the case of the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Shach, they are in writing, in their respective seforim.

And they were indeed "authentic tzadikim." This idea of "long time rivals" of the Lubavitcher Rebbe is more Lubavitch mythology, and is itself the worst strain of loshon horah - hotzoas shem rah. Rivals? What rivals? In Lubavitch anybody who rejects the Rebbe automatically becomes a "rival" and a "misnagid" and thus is unqualified to criticize him because he is not objective, but merely a "long time rival". That’s part of the Lubavitch brainwashing, circular reasoning and illogic that turns the Torah and reality upside down.

What they teach you in school and at home about the Gedolim holding the Lubavitcher Rebbe "in high esteem" is mythology. Rav Moshe accepted the tefilin because they were a gift to him from the Lubavitcher Rebbe, not because of any endorsement of the man. Most Gedolim had no idea of the things the Lubavitcher Rebbe said, because the Rebbe himself instructed people not to publicize anything that would not be accepted about Lubavitch.

In fact, until the later years, the entire moshiach business was difficult to believe to many people, who didn't know much about what was going on inside Chabad, nor much about the Rebbe's teachings. It wasn't as if the Gedolim read Likutei Sichos!

The approach of "either you say what I want you to say or I’m going to lose respect for you" is the typical ideological blackmail that the rabble tried to pull on rabbis who are puppets. It won't work. If you don't want to accept the teachings of the Torah, the Torah will not change for you.

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When someone says the Rebbe is Moshiach, it means MY Moshiach too. There's only one Melech HaMoshiach redeemer. The Meshichists are declaring the Lubavitcher Rebbe as MY KING as well. Everyone has a right to say no it is not so.

Who am I? What qualifications does a Jew need to try to teach Torah to those who don't know it or correct those who falsify it? You tell me.

Just as you admit that you would try to convince someone who says Kiruv Rechokim is wrong, that he is mistaken, I am trying to convince you that you are mistaken.

The Meshichists are off the derech. They have violated the Torah and committed a terrible sin, as per the Yismach Moshe cited above. The punishment, the Gemora (Kesivos 112a) says, for that particular sin is that Jews are killed by the Goyim. And, as the Yismach Moshe points out, that Moshiach will not come until it stops.

I don't want Jews to die. And I do want Moshiach to come. Sorry if that's called sinas chinam to you.

And I do want Jews to believe in the Torah, and not to believe in anti-Torah hashkofos. Sorry if that's called sinas chinam to you.

Nobody is forcing you to believe anything. But you have no right, and, Boruch Hashem, no ability, to prevent others from saying the truth.

And you have no right to believe things that are against the Torah.

You have seen clearly that the Meshichists misquote, misrepresent, and distort the Torah. Anyone can access this website and try to defend them. Many have. Everyone who tried got posted (unless it was a repeat of someone else's post). All the well known "proofs" of the Meshichstin have been shown to be distortions, and their beliefs have been shown to be false. Can anyone defend them? I don't think so.

They should abandon their false beliefs, and do Teshuva, like we want all Jews to do.

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A common response to saying that the Rebbe is not alive and it is crazy to say so is, "What gives you the authority to bash chassidus?"

So whatever any Lubavitcher guy does in the street suddenly becomes Chassidus?

Here's where the problems begin: The inability to distinguish, within Lubavitch between:

(a) what components are generic Torah and Mitzvos shared by all frum Jews
(b) what components are general chassidus - meaning they come from the Baal Shem Tov and his Talmidim, but are not shared by non-chasidim
(c) which components are specifically Chabad chassidus, meaning they come from the Baal HaTanya but are not shared by other Chasidim,
(d) which components come from the last Lubavitcher Rebbe but are not shared by classic Chabad Chassidus
(d) which components come from the Chassidim as interpretations of any or all of the above,
(e) which components come from the Chasidim as their own private "beliefs" or "feelings".

Unfortunately, there has been great confusion between all of the above categories, to the point where, in a Meshichist magazine, a Lubavitch chosid explains why he thought, for sure and without a doubt, that when the Lubavither Rebbe took out of a box the crown to put on the Sefer Torah that was written to "greet Moshiach", that the Rebbe would surely crown himself Moshiach and the Geulah would come right then and there. It was, he said, the "natural feeling of a chosid to his Rebbe."

No. Wrong. This is YOUR feeling to YOUR Rebbe. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yet by many in Lubavitch this is a hard pill to swallow.

Not everything you do becomes "Chasidus", or even "Chabad Chasidus".

The confusion between the above categories is what causes the confusion you feel now.

Because you cannot differentiate between the categories above - and you were "brought up" with all of them - you automatically think that I am going "against all you have been brought up with".

Nope, not at all. Much of what you were brought up with - most, for sure - is not being discussed here. The issue is NOT Chasidim and Misnagdim, the issue is that you have been brought up thinking that the actions of your community are some kind of a gestalt (i.e. a whole that cannot be separated into the sum of its parts) such that whenever criticism is leveled against it, the response is "you’re anti-Lubavitch".

You also need to understand the relationship between the categories, the purpose of each of them, and why they exist.

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"The Person mentioned on your forum as a "GADOL" [Rav Aharon Kotler] committed murder, when he refused to feed the Chabad student starving to death in Shanghai, during the holocaust. He provided for every other Yeshiva student though.
And you say he is against "modern" Chabad? He is a simple anti semite bloody killer."

That such blood libels against the greatest Tzadikim in the world can exist is bad enough; that it was created by Jews makes it infinitely worse; and the fact that these Jews consider themselves religious makes it even worse than that. And, to add insult to injury, these evil people, who make up such stories against a living Sefer Torah, the great Gaon and Tzadik, Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL, also go around preaching that they stand out amongst Klall Yisroel because they "love all Jews".

I let this post go up because instead of an insult to Rav Aharon, it is actually an honor for him, since we see from it that those who opposed him because of his Torah objections to Chabad, were sickos. That such a Nazi-type blood libel against a Tzadik like Rav Ahron can exist, is in itself reason to cry, but that such a thing can come from Orthodox Jews is beyond description.

I have heard this horrific tale in Chabad before. It may help clarify things for many readers here.

There is no basis for the story. It’s an ex nihilo (out of nothing) fabrication. It still exists the same reason blood libels still exist - because evil people intentionally maintain their existence.

There are numerous reasons why I feel it's better not to give this story the time of day:

1) Because it's easy to make up a story out of thin air and almost impossible to disprove it, regardless of its absurdity. Prove, for instance, that your grandfather did not kill his little old lady next door neighbor. It is immoral and outrageous to make someone disprove a story if the story has no basis. The burden of proof is on he who wants to claim that a Tzadik HaDor was a murderer. Once you start "putting up your defense" you agree that there is a defense needed. That is not the case here. Just because some crazy people make up some crazy story doesn’t mean we have to spend our lives chasing down their lies and disproving them. Laughing at them is better.

2) After we disprove this story, they will just make up some other story. If Rav Aharon wasn’t a murderer, they will say he committed adultery, or he was a closet Jesus worshiper. There is no end to stories without basis.

3) These types of stories continue to live because life is injected into them by the elaborate effort put into disproving them. Rumors get worse the more you talk about them - pro or con. Hallucinations get worse when you fight them - they go away when you ignore them. This story is the fabrication of some evil Lubavitchers. The more it is spoken about, the more they will speak about it and therefore the more people will say "there’s 2 sides to the story". Lubavitch does this a lot. They come up with something so ridiculous that it is laughable, like some of their hashkofos that they have, and when you disprove them they throw out more words and speeches and articles, and when you disprove that they just repeat the first ones over and over, and you have to keep repeating yourself, and in the end people look at it and say "Hey, there's so much discussion going on, there must be two sides to the story". Well, that’s when you’re dealing with honest people. These people aren’t, and so that argument is not true in this context.

3) The story is already totally disproven. Anybody who knows anything about Rav Aharon ZTL knows that saving the life of a single Jew - whoever, whenever, wherever - was more important to him than anything else. Moshe Rabbeinu was accused of stealing, and -- HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T STEAL????? - you have no proof he was innocent! But if anyone knows who Moshe Rabbeinu was, they know the story is an evil canard. Same thing here.

4) The difference between this and the Torah is that the Torah is honestly misunderstood by people who honestly need to know if it is true. They deserve the answers. But in this case, the doubts are not honest, they are contrived purposely in order to do evil. That we should not engage.

What we should do when we hear such a story is laugh at its stupidity. And cry for the souls of the evil people in Chabad that are telling it, and for the fact that these people who claim to be "religious" and even "chasidim" are capable of purposely spitting on a Sefer Torah, in order to get people to believe in their movement.

And cry for a movement that needs to spit on a Sefer Torah in order to get people to follow it.

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Lubavitch IX

Not everyone in Lubavitch is a Meshichist or a Yeschinik, but the problem is that our Gedolim saw, even more than 40 years ago, based on the direction the last Lubavitcher Rebbe was taking his Chasidim, that these Meshichists and Yeschiniks would be here. In other words, they saw problems in Lubavitch that they knew would lead to this kind of craziness.

The Brisker Rav ZT”L, after looking at the very first Drasha the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave, stated clearly that from there you can see that Meshichist craziness will come. At the time, people laughed and said “sinas chinam!”, but he saw correctly, as we see today.

The Brisker Rav blamed the Rebbe himself for instigating these problems, as well as others. Other Gedolim agreed with him. This is why:

Nobody is questioning the holiness of Chabad Chasidus. The issue here is totally different, namely, the new innovations to and changes in Chasidus that Lubavitch instituted in the past generation that are not part of their own Chabad traditions, nor any traditions in the Jewish religion, Chassidish or not. These innovations and changes are what lead to the debacle that we are seeing today, and that is what was predicted by our gedolim a generation ago.

Chassidus is different than let’s say Halachah, in that whereas the Halachah was meant for all of Klall Yisroel equally, each Chassidishe Rebbe taught his specific Talmidim according to the roots of their (the students’ and the rebbes’) souls, and each Rebbe had the approach that was custom tailored for his followers. There were great Tzadikim and Rebbes, like the Chidushei HaRim, for instance, who did not even use any Chassidishe Seforim because he held that they were meant for the students of that particular Rebbe, and nobody else (with the exception of the Seforim of the Rebbi of Lublin, which he considered written for everyone). And although others obviously did use Seforim of different Rebbes, they all took them in context, meaning, that the directions in the Seforim were said for a specific group of students at a specific time, and may or may not be what the Rebbe would tell us today, here. The Chasidishe Seforim are extremely valuable and enlightening, but they cannot be taken as a prescription for life designed for us, since the prescription was made for the specific Talmidim at the time, whose needs, souls, and situations were so different from ours.

More sources:

Degel Machanah Efraim V’aerah: “The Torah was given to Darshen according to the needs of each generation, their level, and their nature … and according to the specific soul of that specific generation.” He goes on to explain the same Posuk giving us two diff sets of instructions: One according to the generation of the Baal Shem Tov and then according to his own generation.

Butzinah D’Nehorah (R. Boruch Mezboz ZY”A) in the name of the Baal Shem Tov: Instructions that the Baal Shem Tov gave do not necessarily apply to us. He explains certain methods of Chasidus that are for great people, not plain people, even though the Baal Shem Tov stated these things generically. It is understood, however, that this is how Chasidus works.

Likutei Shoshanim – brings that when R. Moshe of Savaran ZY”A used to repeat the above statement of Rav Boruch, he would say that even what Rav Boruch wrote for “bainonim” is meant only for people on a high level and not for those beginning their Avodah”

Yosher Divrei Emes (I:16), this that the Rebbe Reb Dov Ber taught, that from illicit love a person can come to the love of Hashem, that is only referring to someone who is beyond material things. But for someone who is still connected to Gashmiyus, it does not apply [even though it was stated generically].

Vayoel Moshe p. 173: “So too it is with the Seforim of the students of the Baal Shem Tov. They did not write their Seforim to explain ways and means for everyone, rather, they were recordings of the particular influence that the Rebbe wanted to have on his particular students”.

The Tanya, too, was meant for the Chasidim in that place at that time, the holy students of Rav Shneurr Zalman ZY”A. As it says in the introduction, ‘But [“ach” in Hebrew: “But” or “Only”] for those who I know and recognize I will speak, each one of our loyal people [“anash”] in our country and the neighboring ones, with whom loving speech was found between us, is directed my words and speech in this Sefer Likutei Amarim’.

Taking the Tanya – or any Chasidishe Sefer - and using it as the focal point of your Judaism is comparable to taking a certain medicine because you know that it worked for someone else. Maybe it will work for you, maybe not, but probably it will make you worse. What will help re-start a slowing heart will blow out an already healthy one. If let’s say a Rebbe saw that his Chasidim were very arrogant, he would maybe teach them a lot about humility, and emphasize the “dirt and ashes” part of a person. The same approach would be poison for Chasidim who are very downtrodden and persecuted. They would have to live emphasis on the Image of G-d part of a person, and the greatness of his soul.

That’s step one. Step two: All Chasidus is designed to be learned within the context of other parts of Torah. A person’s education is like a recipe: Salt and pepper are important, but if they are disproportionate to the meat and potatoes, it will kill the food.

So too Chasidishe Seforim were never ever meant for people who have zero background in Judaism. Chasidus was never meant to be a “stand alone” but rather as an addition, or enhancement, to a person’s already established Avodas Hashem. It can only be understood by someone who already has a decent background. An example I once heard given was sunglasses. Chassidus is like sunglasses. It allows you to look directly at the sun, which you never would be able to see without it. But it makes the sun look green. If you intellectually know that the sun is really yellow, you will look into the glasses and understand exactly what the sun looks like based on the combination of what you see now and what you intellectually know. But if you don’t have the intellectual information, you will think the sun is really green or gray or purple.

That “intellectual information” is the background that is needed in Judaism. Without that, what you learn in Chassidus will not be understood, and you will come out with a distorted picture. Not only that, but even with a decent background, you still have to take the Chassidishe Seforim in context, as merely additions to the Torah meal, not the meat and potatoes of it.

Chabad Chassidus in particular was identified by great Chassidishe Tzadikim as an approach that you need to be careful that “Maasav merubah m’chachmaso”, meaning, we always have to make sure that we are on the level of Yiras Shamayim to learn whatever it is that we are learning. Chabad Chasidus is a high level learning and therefore you must be extra careful that those learning it should not be in the category of “their learning exceeds their actions” (see Likutei Amarim Vitebsk, letters of Rebbe of Kalisk ZY”A, Niflaos HaRebbi (Lublin) #237, Derech Tzadikim V:28, Ohr Olam 11 quoting the Saraf of Stralisk, Sur Merah V”Aseh Tov p. 59 quoting the Rebbe of Zidechov – all specifically discussing Chabad Chasidus).

Other Rebbes took steps to make sure that their Chassidim don’t overdo the recipe with Chasidishe Seforim, but rather maintain a main course of Gemora and Poskim, supplemented by Chasidus. Says the Rebbe Reb Melech of Lizensk:

“To reach true Avodas Hashem, first, you need to learn Gemora with Rashi and Tosfos with the Meforshim and Poskim, everybody according to their own level. At the beginning, you should learn also Shulchan Aruch Orech Chaim. You must also pray to Hashem to make you see the truth … and do teshuva … regret your sins … do this not once and not 100 times, but more … then Hashem will open your eyes and you will be able to understand torah, and then you will understand the inside of what you are doing … learn some Mussar Sefer, such as Reishis Chochmah every day.” (Quoted by his son in a letter, Sefer Avreich on Tehillim p.38, and quoted many other places).

Also from the Noam Elimelech (Emor): “The posuk is teaching us to serve Hashem in steps. During the beginning stages, when a person is not yet on the level to accept holiness … he should busy himself with learning Gemora and Poskim with diligence.”

And from the Zera Kodesh (Terumah): “The main part of Chasidus is learning Torah with hasmodah.”

So far we have two traditional rules of Chasidus,

(a) that Chasidus needs to be viewed in context of the rest of Torah and to learn Chassidishe Seforim you need a proportionate background in other areas of torah. If you learn Chassidishe Seforim without the proper background, you will likely misunderstand the concepts, take things way out of proportion, and come out with a totally distorted view of Chasidus. Chasidus is just one ingredient in a Torah-recipe for a Jew. Disproportioned ingredients in the recipe ruins the final dish.

(b) Chassidishe Seforim cannot be used as a direct guide for life except for those to whom the author of the Sefer was referring to – their time and their place. We can only use them for their Torah value and general ideas, but we cannot base our lives on the instructions therein.

Lubavitch changed this. For the first time in history of Chassidus, high-level Chassidus – Tanya - was taught to people who don’t even know the names of the 12 tribes or Moshe Rabbeinu’s brother, to people with zero background in the main parts of Judaism, the “meat and potatoes” of the Jewish soul, people who don’t even keep shabbos yet. The “salt and pepper” of the recipe of Chassidus was changed to the main ingredient. The place of Chassidus in the “food pyramid” of Torah was ripped out of its rightful place and re-emphasized with the wrong proportions. The structure of Ikar and Tofel was changed.

For the first time in history of Klall Yisroel, a Chasidishe Sefer was bound in the same volume as Chumash and Tehillim. “Chitas” – Chumash, Tehillim, Tanya, is a common fixture in Lubavitch homes. Learn a little of each every day. Nobody in the history of Klall Yisroel ever dared to put any other Sefer together with the Tanach itself! Even Gemora would never be put in the same volume as a Chumash. They are not in the same category. To put the Tanya together with Chumash and Tehillim in the same volume as a convenient way to get your daily dose of learning is to do a chain saw massacre job on the traditional proportions of ingredients to maintain our perspective of Ikar and Tofel.

The next step was for Tanya and Lubavitch philosophy to become synonymous with “Chasidus” instead of just one branch of it. It’s not “Lubavitch holds” but rather “Chasidus holds”. This, too, is unique in Lubavitch, that the refer to their own specific traditions generically as “Chassidus” says, as opposed to Lubavitch says. In the Hatekufa V’Hageulah, the index lists sources form Shas and Rambam, then it has “Seforim”, which include numerous Chassidic works, and then it lists “Seforim of Chasidus”, which only has Lubavitch Seforim in it. The edge was blurred between what generic Chassidus says versus what Lubavitch in particular says.

So you can have a guy who owns a pizza store, knows almost zero about Torah, never opened a Gemora or Shulchan Aruch in his life, but learns Tanya and believes that he is following the “derech of the Baal Shem tov”. That he is a “chosid”.

But not only was Tanya – chasidus – used in a way that it never was intended to be used, a way that confuses our perception on Judaism in general, but on top of that, the Baal Shem Tov’s mission suddenly became ours. The “prescription” that the Baal Shem Tov and his students were given suddenly became our medicine as well, in opposition of Chassidic tradition.

Even many in Chabad will agree that the Meshichistin are off their rocker. But the question is, why out of all the Orthodox Jewish groups in the entire world, did this stuff pop out of Chabad? The answer cannot be merely that “Chabad accepts everyone”, even people who are off their rocker, which is the answer I have heard more than once, because among the meshichistin are very respected Chabad rabbis, Roshei Yeshivas, and others considered authorities, not weirdos. Only in Chabad will you find so many Rabbonim espousing ideas that every high school kid can tell you is antithetical to Torah. How can this happen?

No, they did not all just go crazy together one day. If we understand the teachings they were given all their lives, we can understand how they can believe such a thing. Not everyone in Chabad, BH, fell victim to Meshichism, which is like many people crossing the street at a red light – only some will get hit. The misconstrued version of Chasidus that is unique to Chabad and nowhere else makes them vulnerable to such terrible mistakes.

And remember – much of Lubavitch are Balei Teshuva. Which means that they have – or had at one point – no background or little background in Judaism. Those who grew up in frum homes and saw the way their parents and grandparents referred to their Rebbes, their Chassidus, and Judaism in general would not be nearly so susceptible to the eccentric derech of contemporary Chabad. It is much easier to confuse people with little background than it is with strong background. Baalei Teshuva who became frum through Chabad are much more likely to accept what they are taught as authentic because they have no background to contrast it with. This is not to say that all Meshichistin are Baalei Teshuva, but rather the great multitude of Jews with little or no background prior to their exposure to Chabad greatly raises the odds of them having so many Meshichistin among their ranks.

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The Lubavitcher Rebbe's impressive roster of thousands of Jews becoming religious through his emissaries as well as brilliance in many subjects - Judaic and otherwise - but he was a very controversial individual, whose foreign innovations into Judaism and Chasidus elicited fierce opposition by Torah leaders and Tzadikim. His emphasis on Messianism in general and his hints that he himself was the Messiah in particular, was in itself sufficient for more traditionally Orthodox Torah Jews to distance themselves from him and his group. Statements such as (Likutei Sichos II:p.511) "a Rebbe is actually G-d Himself clothed in a body" caused the mainstream body of Torah Jewry to reject Lubavitch as illegitimate, often to the point of outlawing affiliation with it and even declaring it idolatry. Because most of the Lubavitcher's followers were Jews with little or no Torah education prior to their indoctrination by the Rebbe's emissaries, the foreign ideologies were able to be passed off as mainstream Judaism or Chassidus without being questioned. The Messianic tendencies and deification of the Rebbe culminated in the famous declaration of many Chabad rabbis that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is indeed the Messiah, and that, even after his passing and burial, he is immortal, still alive but hidden, and soon to be revealed to the world as the long awaited Messiah.

It is primarily those with no Jewish education prior to their encounter with Chabad that live their lives according to the Lubavitcher Rebbe's teachings and believe him to be the Messiah. Chabad has little success attracting those knowledgeable in Torah.

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It's great if you became frum through Chabad, and as I mentioned, they deserve much credit for making people frum. However, Shlomo Carlebach made many people frum too, even though many things he did was wrong. Shabsie Tzvi the false Messiah also made many people frum.

But the fact is that Chabad WAS very opposed by Torah leaders - It's just that within Chabad they try to deny that or hide it, or, as you do, explain it away by saying people are jealous. Do you really think that all the great Tzadikim that oppose Chabad are all jealous?

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There are many families where the children decide on a different derech than the parents. If you remain frum (of course) and become a ben Torah, your parents should be thankful, even if you are not Chabad. The thing is, in the meantime, you must live peacefully with them, do not argue with them, and as the Halachah is regarding all Jews, including parents, do not correct them on something they will not listen to you about, even if you do it in a very respectful manner.

I don't know if your parents are Baalei teshuva, but it is often very difficult for people, especially with the Chabad chinuch, to see that their lives are not being lived in the best way. Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz ZT"L says that this was the greatness of the sage Shimon Ha'Amsuni, who spent his life deriving Halachos from every instance of the word "es" in the Torah.

When he hit a roadblock in the posuk "Es Hashem elokechah tirah" - what else besides Hashem can we possibly be afraid of? - he was ready to chuck his entire life's work of "es" derivations. For if there is one posuk where nothing can be derived from the "es" it disproves his entire theory.

His whole life's work was going to go down the drain.

Until Rabi Akiva came and saved his career, by explaining that Talmidei Chachamim also must be feared.

But here we have a sage, a Tanna, who could raise the dead in a second, ready to throw out his whole life's work because he had a question he couldn't answer. That proved him wrong.

And he wouldn't return to the work until the question was answered.

That's greatness, says Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz. For a person to realize their entire life's ideas were a mistake, and be big enough to admit it.

It can happen to the best of us, and we should thank Hashem that He showed us the right path.

Maybe it's actually b'zchus all the searching you did and effirts you put into your religion that Hashem gave you a new revelation. The Yismach Moshe explains Chazal: Yagati Umatzasi Taamin - "I worked hard and then found results" - saying that "finding" something is not the same as working for it. Meanign, even though you worked hard on your growth, in the end, b'zchus your work, you may "find" the rewards somewhere you never expected them to be.

So follow what you know is the truth. one day you will be married and then you will follow your husband's Minhagim. In the meantime, be peaceful, respectful, and honorable to your parents, because, bottom line, if it weren't for their upbringing, you probably wouldn't be frum in the first place. And it is considered a zechus for them that, despite their expectations, because of their bringing you up religious, their daughter chose the right path.

You are not harming your parents by choosing what you know to be right, you are giving them a very very big Zechus.

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Yes, it is true that many things Jews do are wrong, and many things Lubavitchers do are wrong. But the big difference is, Judaism has remained the same, it's just Jews that have violated it. In Chabad, Judaism itself has changed. The problem is NOT just people who do NOT follow the Lubavitcher Rebbe, but the people that DO. In other words, the issue here is the problem of the Rebbe, not the Chasidim.

The opposition to Lubavitch is based on things the Rebbe himself did and said, many of which have been listed above. Statements such as (Likutei Sichos II:p.511) a Rebbe is G-d Himself clothed in a body, and that Lubavitcher Chasidim - and ONLY Lubavitche Chasidim - do not have to sleep in a Sukkah because they should be like the Mitteler Rebbe who had a hard time sleeping in the Sukkah because the Shechinah is there, and other things that are against the Torah as well, is what we are talking about.

If Jews want to do the wrong thing, they have free will to do it, but if they want to do the right thing, they know what it is. In Lubavitch, the wrong thing has been made into the RIGHT thing, which is a totally different problem.

The first is violating the Torah, the second is changing it. The second is much worse, since even people who want to do the right thing are misled into doing the wrong thing by the leader, in this case, the Rebbe.

In this, Chabad has something in common with Modern Orthodoxy, the JDL, Zionism, and other deviant groups. Namely, they all claim to be following the Torah but really changed the Torah to follow them. So just like if someone grows up in a Zionist school for instance, and has a lot of Yiras Shamayim, he will still be off the derech, because he thinks he is following the Torah but is not, so too in Lubavitch, those who DO listen to the Rebbe will be going against the Torah.

Now, regarding the idea that "there was opposition" to the Rambam, to Chasidus from the Vilna Gaon, and even to Kiruv Rechokim in general, you are making a number of mistakes.

First, regarding Kiruv Rechokim, I know that what you said is commonly taught in Chabad circles - that Lubavitch once had such terrible opposition to their Kiruv programs and now everyone is doing it - but it is a total falsehood.

Nobody ever opposed Kiruv Rechokim. It is older than CHabad and older than Chasidus itself. What was opposed is the way Chabad does Kiruv, namely, to send some poor guy out to live among the Goyim and non-religious Jews, which is what was opposed by the Torah leaders, as Rav Yosi bar Kisma says in Pirkei Avos, "Even if you would give me all the money in the world I will not live anywhere except in a Makom Torah."

Rav Yosi B"K was offered money to come live in a certain town. They offered him this money because they wanted a great Tzadik like him to be in their town. Obviously, the people making this offer were not evil, for what evil people would pay to have a sage come live among them?

And also obviously, Rav Yosi could have done a lot of good in that town, since they themselves beged him to come. They valued his presence, and wanted him there because they wanted a sage among them.

But Rav Yosi said that he will not move there because he will only live in a Makom Torah.

But in Chabad you have "shluchim" in places like Puerto Rico, where there are zero frum Jews, and zero Judaism, except him and his wife and little kids.

Not exactly what Chazal recommend.

The difference between this and what the Gedolei Yisroel did was they sent groups of people to start Kollel communities to live in different cities, and there was always a pre-condition that the people going to do kiruv would have a "makom torah", either among the Orthodox community of the place they go to, or because of their peer families coming with them. But never would a Gadol send an individual to live among the Goyim and non-religious Jews alone. Never.

That is still opposed, and always was.

Nobody changed their minds about Kiruv, or about Chabad.

The difference between Chabad and SEED is that the SEED program sends (a) people - plural,(b) temporarily, to do Kiruv. That's not the same as bringing up a family and living alone among the Goyim.

What Chabad does, only they do, and it has zero source anywhere in Chasidus. The Baal Shem Tov's "shluchim" were not made to live in Puerto Rico, they went to teach the Baal Shem Tovs Torahs to frum Jews. Big difference. What Chabad is doing is not Chasidus at all.


As far as the Rambam's opposition is concerned, it is true, he had oppostioion. But one may assume that the Rambam would be able to answer his opponent's charges if directly confronted. The problem is, he did not get a fair chance. The Vilna Gaon too, was supposed to meet with the Alter Rebbe to hear the Chasidim's side of the story but never did. But we can assume the Baal HaTanya could have defended himself.

As opposed to Lubavitch, where the Rebbe himself has not even come close to adequately explaining his actions and policies, even though he has tried.

In order to defend themselves, they have to lie to rabbis about their actions (such as the letter from the Debreciner Rav above), make up stories about Gemoras that do not exist (such as the non-existent Gemora that says it was "common practice" for students to say their Rebbe is Mohsiach). None of the Lubavitch rabbi, mashpiim or shluchin have the faintest idea of how to explain their actions. At least not when trying to explain it to someone a little Torah-literate.

That’s one. Two, there was opposition to Chasidus and the Rmabam etc. long ago, and that therefore opposition in and of itself does not prove someone is wrong. But you also cannot use the fact that the Rambam had opposition to negate charges against Chabad, because the Conservative and Reform etc. can say the same thing: Maybe in 100 years everyone will agree that Reform is right, like they agree that the Rambam was right?

So now my question is, how do you know if the opposition to Lubavitch is like the opposition to the Rambam, or like opposition to Zionism or Reform? Isn't it true that although there has been mistaken opposition in the past, there has also been legitimate opposition as well, and therefore, the most you can say is "I don’t know if I am right or wrong. The Rambam had opposition but so did Reform. I do not know if I am like the Rambam or Reform."

Is that a way to live? How do you know that the opposition to Chabad is NOT legitimate?

That’s the problem in Chabad. Everyone just blindly follows what they are taught, and when they are shown to be wrong they say "Yeah, well, they said the Rambam was wrong too."

But of course, whereas those who followed the Rambam did so because they knew the answers to the charges leveled against him, Chabad chooses to follow their way even though they have no idea why.

And that's the difference. The Rambam's followers were his followers because they knew the answers. Not because they said "Well, someone else also had opposition."

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Lubavitch VIII

Nobody writes letters to dead Tzadikim.

The letters are a baseless misbelief of some Lubavitcher Chasidim, with no precedent anywhere. The GRA’s “gorel” is not the same. He did not just open a Sefer to get advice. It is done a specific way, according to Kabbalah. You don’t just open a sefer to wherever and think the letter has to do with you. There’s no such thing.

And what is happening today in Lubavitch – the Rebbe being alive, the Rebbe being Moshiach etc. has nothing to do with Chassidus. The Baal Shem Tov is not responsible for this mess. It’s a pity that some people think they can make up their own beliefs and blame it on the Baal Shem Tov. It is a defense mechanism for many people in Lubavitch today to explain away those who properly object to many things they are doing, as “misnagdim.” Nothing can be further from the truth. If the Baal Shem tov were alive today, he would be the first one to condemn these practices. Rav Lazer Shach shlita wrote in a letter about Lubavitch that once upon a time, Lubavitch was following the Tanya and their Rebbes, and they were a legitimate Chassidic group. But today the Meshichist stuff and some other stuff that is happening is unacceptable, and it is a lie to say that any of that has to do with Chasidus, even Lubavitch Chasidus. It’s just the invention of some of the Chasidim today, with no tradition or Chasidus to back it up whatsoever. He also adds that no, he is not a misnagid at all, nor does he chas vshalom have anything against chasidim. He adds that he could not imagine what the world would look like today if not for the chassidim. But what is happening today in certain segments of Lubavitch has zero to do with Chasidus at all.

I know that when a certain magazine in New York printed this letter of Rav Shach shlita, certain Lubavitcher merchants in Crown Heights called and threatened to boycott the magazine. When the merchants were asked about the fact that the magazine has written about the controversy in Lubavitch in the past, in much harsher ways, yet nobody had a problem with that, they answered that they don’t care if they write against Lubavitch, because they can always dismiss such things to their children by saying they are “misnagdim”. But to let their children see that Rav Shach has nothing against Chasidim, that he is not a misnagid, and that his gripe is only with today’s Chabad and not even with previous Lubavitcher Chasidus, that they cannot allow their children to read.

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Nobody would ever think of communicating with Moshe Rabbeinu by opening a Chumash, would they? Nor did anyone ever do this in history except some of today's Lubavitchers. It has no source, and no logical reason behind it. As far as it working, I have seen some of these "successes". They were more like a person fitting what he wants into the message that he saw.

Why don't you just throw the dice or use a fortune cookie? Don't you think the Rebbe can't communicate with you that way if he wanted? Or never mind the Rebbe - why not ask the Baal HaTanya -- open up a Tanya to somewhere and ask him if what you're doing makes any sense. But why stop there? You should open a Mishnayos and ask the Tanaim and Amorayim what to do? If you have Rabbi Akiva and Rav Yehuda Hanasi, why bother the Rebbe?

In our religion, we do not make things up. We do not believe things at random. We have Torah sources. Our religion and all its ramifications are given from Hashem. This behavior has no source in Hashem's Torah, hence it is not part of it. And it has no basis in logic either. So what's left?

Why don't they open a Chumash and ask Moshe Rabbeinu to advise them, rather than the Lubavitcher Rebbe? Surely they agree that Moshe Rabbeinu's advice is as good as their Rebbe's.

Or do they?

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The problem is not that you look in the Igros for answers, but rather HOW you do your looking. If you were to tell me that you look in the index for a letter that the Rebbe wrote to someone with circumstances similar to yours, and then you apply the letter to your situation, that makes sense. That's the way we look into the Torah for advice. If for instance, someone is going to meet with a powerful non-Jewish leader, he reviews the Parsha where Yaakov met Esav. And he takes the lessons in context, applying them as much as they are applicable to his situation.

We do not randomly open a Chumash somewhere and assume that whatever words appear on that page is the "message" that Hashem intended for us. That is nonsense. That is not how we are supposed to use Seforim. There is no reasoning behind it, it's baseless.

If you would find a letter somewhere from your Rebbe that says that dead people communicate with every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the street by random openings of their writings, that would mean something. But as it is, it shows zilch.

The difference between the way everyone in Klall Yisroel including Chabad always looked for answers in Seforim, versus the way these people do it today, is that everyone else always used the CONTENT of the Sefer, in the context that the message was written to decide if it applies to them or not. These guys are, instead, using a random opening to decide if it applies to them, and there is no logic or religious source for such a concept.

The fact that you have some stories that seem to be indicative of connections between the person asking for advice and the advice itself - such as both were written on Purim and the like - means nothing. First, out of so many tons of openings of the letters, you are bound to find some similarities simply at random, but even if not - even if you would find an impossibly large number of such connections, it would mean nothing positive about this practice. Since we know that (a) there is no Torah source for it, and (b) there is no logic behind it and (c) Jews have never done it, ever, and (d) it is only being used with the Lubavitcher Rebbe's Seforim, and, if this thing makes sense, it should apply to everyone's seforim, so obviously it is just one more method of singling out the Lubavitcher Rebbe as different than everyone from Moshe Rabbeinu down, it therefore cannot be real. We do not base our beliefs on supernatural occurrences. The Yetzer Horah allowed Yassir Arafat to survive plane crashes at impossible odds so that in Saudi Arabi they can "show" the school children that G-d approves of Arafat's actions. Every idol worshiper can have miracles done for him. We derive our religious beliefs from the Torah, NOT from miracles. Since this has no basis in the Torah, and is clearly untrue otherwise Jews would have been doing this throughout history, we should not be impressed by "coincidences". Who knows? How do you know its not the Yetzer Horah, based on the principle of "he who wants to lower himself receives supernatural help to do so" (Yoma 39b), who is creating these "coincidences" in order for you to believe what's wrong? It's happened in the past. Lubavitch, for instance, who are very anti-Zionist would have to answer the Zionist claims of miracles in a similar fashion. If you are not impressed with the Zionist stories of miraculous victories over all odds because "miracles" do not impress you - and you are of course correct in this attitude - why should anyone be impressed with your "miracles"?

But that's only l'shitashchem - according to your own understanding of what is happening.

I was challenged by a friend of mine to "test" this Igros thing. My friend opened up the Sefer at random, and of course he "found" messages directed straight at him. Rather than argue with him about how interpretive he's being, I took a random volume of the World Book Encyclopedia and did the same thing. Lo and behold, I found an equal amount of messages to me.

But as I said, miracles or no miracles, if something does not come from a Torah source, we do not believe in it. Period. And this does not.

Of course there is Hashgocho here, but you have Hashgocho when you flip a coin too. Or when you throw the dice. Or when you open the World Book Encyclopedia to a random page. You are adding the idea that a random opening of the Rebbe's letters has some extra Hashgocho that does not exist elsewhere. This is simply false. Hashem controls the dice as precisely as he controls your Rebbe's letters. The idea that the Rebbe communicates through the random opening of the letters is not Hashgocho is a plain baseless fabrication.

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There is no such thing in our religion that you can communicate with your no-longer-alive Rebbe by opening his sefer and randomly turning to some page, then figuring out on your own what the no-longer-alive Rebbe wants to tell you.

The Radak and Abarbanel explain the Sefer Torah found by King Yoshiah being rolled to the special place.

Rashi explains that the Sefer Torah was found under a layer of stones where it was hidden when Achaz burned the Torah.

Malbim (quoting Abarbanel) explains that they found the Torah written by Moshe Rabbeinu, which was hidden from Menasheh, who cut the Shem Hashem out of the Torahs.

All these commentaries are found in the Perek itself.


Although if such a thing were legitimate, Jews throughout history and all over the world would have been doing it, the reality is that NEVER ANYWHERE has anyone ever thought to do such a thing, EVEN in Chabad, until the Rebbe died. Which means clearly that this the concept here is communicating with the deceased Rebbe, else it would have been done while he was alive as well, AND other seforim could have and would have been used. It's just plain superstition concocted out of thin air.

Over there, the King Yoshiah miraculously found the Sefer Torah that Moshe Rabbeinu himself wrote, hidden under a rock pile in the Bais HaMikdash although all Sifrei Torah were destroyed by Achaz. Now, suddenly, they were shocked to find the Sefer that Moshe Rabbeinu himself wrote, in its designated place in the Kodesh HaKadashim.

But another strange thing: All Sifrei Torah in the Bais HaMikdash were always rolled to Bereishis before being put away. Miraculously, this Sefer Torah was not. Instead, it was rolled to the punishments that will happen to the Jews when they do not keep the Torah.

Yoshia was shocked at the unlikely finding of this particular Torah - of any Torah at all - and the strange place to which it was opened. He took these unnatural occurrences as a sign from Hashem, and tore his clothes. He immediately consulted the prophet Chuldah for guidance and assistance.

Chuldah said: This sign is no coincidence, but rather a real sign from Hashem (Abarbanel), which means that even Yoshia needed confirmation from a Navi for what he figured out on his own. "So says Hashem," she says. "Your interpretation of the message was correct". There was a need for a special prophecy telling Yoshia he was right.

And from that story you want to prove that (a) every Tom Dick and Harry in the street can (b) randomly open the rebbes' letters and get some message (c) from the Rebbe that (d) Tom Dick and Harry can rely on to make decisions?

Ouch.

Number one: Because Yoshia the great Tzadik, who Chazal say (Echah Rabbah 4) was to Hashem like an "article of gold jewelry”, could interpret a sign from Hashem that means every guy in the street can?

Two: Even Yoshia only took it as a sign because it was a miraculous occurrence, and

Three: Yoshia had a prophet confirm his initial understanding

Four: Nobody ever tried this in their own home. Nobody used a Sefer Torah in such a way to randomly open it and get "messages". it was only because of the unnatural finding and the weird way it was not rolled to the beginning that he took it as a sign, and even then, if it was not confirmed by a prophet we do not know if he would have accepted it as fact.

Six: None of this has anything to do with communicating with a dead Rebbe. Remember: These people never did this before, even though they had this "source" (sic) always, and they still do not do it with a Sefer torah but with the Rebbe's writings.

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The Igros? When they communicate with their dead Rebbe by opening his Seforim? That is psycho. There is no way you can communicate with the deceased author of a sefer by opening his sefer.

Here, too, Chabad rabbis will distort things. They will come up with sources that people would open Seforim to get messages about what to do, similar to the Gorel HaGra.

But here, again, another lie. None of that has to do with what Chabad is doing. In all those instances, nobody was ever communicating c"v with the deceased author of a Sefer. Rather, Hashem "determines" where the Sefer will open to, and thus it is considered a sign from Hashem, not a communication by the author. When you do the Gorel HaGra with a Chumash, you are not communicating with Avrhom Avinu. Rather it is a Kabalistic way of seeing how the "chips fall" and using that as a sign from Hashem.

But using the specific sefer of a deceased person believing that the author is talking to you is a totally different act, and it is whacko. It has no source, none whatsoever, and it exists only in the denial-wracked minds of Lubavitcher Chasidim. To compare this to the gorolim in our seforim is a crime.


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It's not wrong to want a Rebbe, but that's like the guy who talks to his dead wife asking is it wrong for him to want his wife.

The Rebbe is not alive. Not any more than the Bobover Rebbe or the Satmar Rebbe or the Bluzhever Rebbe or the Klausenberger Rebbe.

For a long time there were those in Chabad who "knew" (sic) that the Rebbe was Moshiach. Now they can't accept the fact that all these years they were wrong. I remember when the Lubavitcher Rebbe was sick after his heart attack. These guys were saying to everyone don't worry, he will for sure recover. When asked what if he doesn't? The answer was that's unthinkable! Of course he will! He's Moshiach!

They were wrong then.

In the most recent issue of Bais Moshiach (9 Shvat 5761) there is an article called "The Seifer Torah of Moshiach". In short, the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe (Rayatz) began writing a Sefer Torah with which Moshiach is supposed to be greeted when he comes. The Torah was finished by last Rebbe (who they refer to as The Rebbe MHM, i.e. Melech Hamoshiach). On 10 Shevat 5730, the sefer Torah was going to be completed in the Lubavitcher Bais Medrash in Crown Heights. The Sefer Torah was in fact finished, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe placed a gold and silver crown on top of it. The following are some quotes from those who were there:

"When the Rebbe opened the box and removed the crown, we were certain - I, as well as others who related this - that the Rebbe would place the crown on his head and be revealed as Moshiach . . . it wasn't a wish and it wasn't a feeling. It was absolute knowledge. We all knew this was the day Moshiach would be revealed" - Rabbi Yosef Berger

"It wasn't something that we debated. We were all 100% certain that after yud shevat would be the Geulah. No questions were asked and nobody tried to find allusions in the works of halachah chassidus or kabbalah" - Rabbi Chaim Meir Chazzan

They were wrong then, too.

When a belief yields so many wrong results, perhaps it's time to rethink the belief.

I understand how people who believed something for so long can be in denial when they are faced with the reality that their belief was wrong, and I agree that nobody can judge them as people, because who knows if any of us would be able to accept the fact that a long established belief of ours was wrong? And we also all have to keep in mind the teaching of the Baal Shem Tov: Kol hanegoim ododm roeh, minigei atzmo - whenever someone sees others sinning, it is a sign that there is a sin in the one who sees it.

So when we see so many of our brothers fall so hard and so terribly we all have to do Teshuva. We should not judge them because how do we know how we would react if we were taught something all our lives, especially if we became frum through these teachers, and now we find out that it wasn't true?

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MAKING THE REBBE PROUD

Everywhere else, Jews are taught to bring Nachas to Hashem. In Chabad, the goal of Mitzvos is to bring Nachas Ruach to the Rebbe. Rav Shach shlita writes that this is part of the Avodah Zarah of these people. Prism, your answer comparing it to those who do not write Shivisi Hashem on the Aron misses the point of the problem. The diff is that although it may not say Shivisi Hashem, it still would never say Shivisi HaRebbe either! So if in the Chabad manual it doesn't say to bring nachas to Hashem, that could be because it’s not necessary, but if you write clearly to children that the reason they must behave like good Jews is to bring Nachas Ruach to the Rebbe, that clearly leaves out Hashem. Either say Hashem, or don’t say anything. To say that the reason you are behaving like Jews is to bring Nachas Ruach to the Rebbe is disgusting and idolatry, as Rav Shach writes. Especially when telling this to little children, the message that "You are doing Mitzvos to being Nachas to the rebbe" is total avodah zarah.

Incidentally, I received, through IM, the following conversation. It is from a girl on these boards who is (was) Lubavitch, but has decided because of our boards that she doesn't want to be Lubavitch anymore. This girl says she found a pamphlet in a different Chabad institution her brother brought it home from school. This is what she says (I changed her screen name):

FormerChabad Girl: They make the kids sign this. It says: I ________ have read this entire handbook, and understand that my coming to the mesivta is btanai that I have undertaken to adhere to all the rules
Moderator5761: ....
FormerChabad Girl: and policies of the mesivta as set forth in this handbook. My learning, davening, and general hanhagah will bli neder
FormerChabad Girl: be one that is according to the ruach of tomchei temimim that causes only nachas ruach to
FormerChabad Girl: the Rebbe
Moderator5761: Feh. So what did you do?
FormerChabad Girl: I corrected it. I crossed out the Rebbe and wrote
FormerChabad Girl: to Hashem.
Moderator5761: :-)

"Tizki L'Mitzvos" to the girl above, for she fulfilled the Mitzvah of "al tashken b'ahalechah avlah" - not allowing anti-Torah literature into her home.

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If you are against Lubavitch today you are not against the Tanya, since the Tanya does not defend at all, anywhere, the wrong things that Lubavitch does.

Tanya does not say that a Rebbe is G-d in a body, but the Lubavitcher Rebbe said it.

Tanya does not say that because you are Chabad you are exempt from sleeping in the sukkah, but Lubavitcher Rebbe says it.

Tanya does not say that the need to robotically imitating your rebbe exempts you from washing for shalosh seudos. But Lubavitcher Rebbe does.

The Tanya did not say to bind his sefer together with the Chumash and Tehillim, but the Lubavitcher Rebbe did. The Tanya did not say to take people out of the Bais HaMedrash and send them out to teach Tanya to Jews who are so ignorant in Judaism they don't know who Moshe's brother was, before they can read a posuk in Chumash.

Tanya does not say that anyone in Moshiach.
Tanya does not say that the Rebbe is alive.
So if you're against these things that means you're against the Tanya?

Huh? Nope. Sorry. Please don't blame what Chabad has become today on the Tanya. The Alter Rebbe had nothing to do with it.

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I have learned the Tanya in depth. And that is one of the reasons I cannot accept the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Because I know that the Tanya should NOT be taught to everybody in the street; that learning Tanya without the requisite background in Torah knowledge can steer you off what Chasidus is supposed to be; can cause you to believe that your Rebbe is infallible, has no yetzer horah, and must be unquestionably followed. All of which is a distortion of what the Tanya means to convey.

Learning Tanya without the requisite background has led some people to apikorsus, such as those who I have spoken to in Lubavitch that think that the reason Hashem created the world was because "He wanted a dwelling place in the lower worlds", which is what the Tanya says. But what does it mean?

WHY did Hashem want a dwelling place down here?

I have spoken to baalei teshuva and non baalei teshuva, who do not realize that Hashem is perfect and does not need any dwelling places anywhere.

If so, what is the Tanya saying?

The answer is that Hashem created the world for our sake - in order for US to beenfit from Gan Eden, ultimately. The Tanya was not asking that question. The Tanya assumes you know that answer. The question he was asking was, why did Hashem need to create a "world" in order to do that? Why is the universe, with all its spiritual-physical dichotomy, with all its illusions and sheker, necessary for Hashem to give us gan eden?

The Tanya's answer is that Hashem decreed that the way people can get gan eden is by sanctifying, on their own, by their own free-will, something that (a) is not holy (b) but can become holy; to bring Hashem's "presence" into a place where it is not apparent is what merits us Gan Eden.

And so, since He deemed necessary for our attaining Gan Eden the sanctification of the mundane, that is, G-d's presence "expanded" (only appearance-wise, of course) into an illusory, mundane world, therefore, Hashem created this world.

In other words, He created the world in order to facilitate the ability for His presence to be brought to the mundane.

"A dirah batachtonim".

I also know from learning Tanya that the Tanya was written only for his own group of talmidim and chasidim, as he writes in the introduction, and not designed for everyone's needs. It's like a prescription that a doctor wrote for someone - you should learn from the doctor's knowledge of how he wrote the prescription and why, but you cannot assume that prescription would be what he would write for you.

So too, the Tanya was not designed to be the lifestyle-manual for everyone. Only for those who the Baal HaTanya deemed it so. And clearly from his words, that is not everyone.

I also know from learning Tanya that the Lubavitcher Rebbe's comment about Rav Shach's speech regarding the chilonim "it's from the yetzer horah" means, to those familiar with Chabad teachings, "Rav Shach is not a tzadik."

Inspiration is great, but the Tanya was also designed to educate, not only inspire. And teenage girls are not ready for that level of education yet.

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I did not just "suddenly think of these doubts". These are a sampling of the problems with Chabad that our Gedolim have had for years and years. These issues have been well known in the Torah world, and are at the crux of the opposition of the Gedolim to Chabad. I don't know why they haven't heard of this in Lubavitch before this week.

The not sleeping in a Sukkah is particularly well-known by Torah leaders as a Chabad violation of Halacha because it is the most public of all the transgressions. Writes Rav Shach shlita:

"They [Lubavitch] are far from the opinions of our holy Torah. For instance, they currently publicized [for people] to undo a Mitzvah Aseh of sleeping in the Sukkah with a Dvar Torah full of nothingness, nonsense, and ignorance." (Letters, IV:349).

This was written in 1989. About 15 years ago, a Satmar guy named Mordechai Moskowitz published a booklet called "The Truth about the Lubavitch Movement in the '80's", which explains why Satmar is against Lubavitch. It's the same basic ideas as above.

What I posted here is nothing new. In Lubavitch they just didn't want this material known. I remember years ago there was a controversy in one of the Brooklyn Jewish magazines about the Meshichistin and Chabad. Someone published a letter from Rav Shach stating that he is not a Misnagid, he loves Chassidim in general (he cannot even imagine what Klall Yisroel would look like today if not for Chassidus, he writes), and he has nothing against Lubavitch Chassidus either (he says that the students in his Yeshiva may freely learn Tanya if they desire, no problem) but Lubavitch has slowly gone off the Derech of even their own Chassidus, and it is the new innovations and behaviors - NOT real Chabad Chassidus as espoused by the Alter Rebbe - that he opposes.

Lubavitch vendors called the publisher threatening to ban it in Crown Heights because of this. When the publisher asked that in the past much worse things were written about Lubavitch so why are they so upset about this, they answered that they dont mind if they write something against Lubavitch because they can say to their children that it's just Misnagdim, but they don't want their children knowing that Rav Shach loves chasidim and is not a misnagid and its' only them he opposes.

And Satmar, too, as opposed to what one poster above claims, was not at all against learning Tanya. The Tanya is quoted numerous times in the Satmar Rebbe's Seforim and used by him frequently in his Drashos. In the biography of the Satmar Rebbe called "Moshian Shel Yisroel" by Shlomo Y. Gelbman (who personally knew the Satmar Rebbe) we have the following (vol. I:p.320):

"So too did the Rebbe ZT"L [learn] the Seforim of Chabad, mentioning often in his Torahs material from the Tanya and the Sidur HaRav...Once , he borrowed from someone the Kuntres Hispalus of the holy rabbi RD"B of Lubavitch ZY"A... the Rebbe spoke with awesome respect for the holy Rebbe Rashab ZY"A, of his amazing holiness and his exceptional wisdom ... once, a chosid asked the Rebbe why, when he quotes the Rebbe Rashab he uses more titles on him than he usually uses [on others]. The rebbe answered, “The Rashab was a burning fire!" ... when bochurim from the Yeshiva asked him about learning Sifrei Chabad he said ... nowadays we have to be very careful because there are among the Lubavitchers today those who twist the Torah, and we have to be careful not to fall into their trap ... and therefore, you should learn Tanya only as much as other Chassidishe Seforim, and not make a unique project of it."

Nobody is against the Alter Rebbe or Chabad itself. Rather, the opposition is only regarding the new philosophies and innovations instituted by Chabad in the past generation, and the reasons for this opposition are well known.

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