Lubavitch X
The reason our Gedolim have not embarked on a so-called "Moshiach campaign" is the same reason they have not instituted the type of Kiruv programs Chabad does. Namely, it is not what the Torah wants.
The Chabad method of Kiruv, where you send somebody out to live among the Goyim and non-Jews without any Torah community is opposed by the Torah, as we find in Pirkei Avos, that even if you can accomplish a lot in terms of Kiruv by living in a non-Makom Torah, you should not go there, as Rav Yosi Ben Kisma explained.
Regarding the "Moshiach campaign," it, too, is counter to what the Torah wants, and only serves to make sure Moshiach is gets further away from coming, r"l. Moshiach will not come until people give up hope of Geulah, the Gemora says (Sanhedrin 97). Moshiach will only come when we are NOT thinking about him, it says.
We pray for Moshiach every day, and we are obligated to yearn for his coming, but the specifics about when who and how Moshiach’s arrival will take place, is forbidden for us to ponder, and it pushes the Geulah further away.
The reason is as follows:
When Moshiach comes, it will be the total and final downfall of evil in the world. The Satan therefore exerts all his energies to make sure Moshiach does not come, or to delay his arrival as much as possible, for his (the Satan’s) very survival depends on this delay.
So dedicated is the Satan to Moshiach’s not coming, says the Arizal, that Moshiach’s Neshomah had to “sneak in” to this world in a way that the Satan would not notice, through an act of incest between Lot and his daughters. And then through Rus and Boaz. The Satan and his minions, who are so on the lookout to destroy for anything that has to do with Moshiach, would exert all his energies to prevent the great soul of Moshiach from entering the world. So Hashem arranged it to slip in, in a way that the Satan never expected.
The Yismach Moshe (Chasidic master and Halachic authority, and student of the Seer of Lublin) explains that this is why the Halachah of “amoni vlo amonis, moavi vlo moavis” was forgotten (or: hidden) from the masses until the time came for its application. For this was the Halachah that allowed King David to enter into Klall Yisroel. And King David's entry needs to remain "under the radar" of the Satan.
We must understand that the Satan and his terrorist groups are lying in wait for Moshiach. Any hint of his arrival will automatically attract the attention of the Satan. Moshiach will be "snuck in" to this world by Hashem in a way that we are not allowed to contemplate. The Satan knows Moshiach is coming. But when how and who must remain hidden from the Satan. We pray and yearn for Moshiach’s coming in general. But maneuvering Moshiach into the world safe from the radar and cross hairs of the Satan is Hashem's job. Only Hashem can accomplish that. But one thing we know: Hashem must bring Moshiach into the world in a way the Satan least expects it, and is unprepared for it.
The poor person will not be forgotten forever, but the hope of the poor will be lost forever. (Tehilim 9). Explains the Bina L'Itim: The poor Klall Yisroel in Golus will not be lost forever. Moshiach WILL come. BUT! The hope of the poor will be lost forever. The way and the vision that we have of Moshiach's arrival will NOT happen. The Geulah will not happen the way we think it will, it cannot. We don't know how Moshiach will come, but one thing we do know is he will not come the way we expect him to come.
Moshiach can't come in an expected way. He was born under the radar and he will come under the radar. Hashem always hid the time of the final redemption from us. When Yaakov Avinu tried to reveal it, Hashem would not let. The prophets told of many things, but nothing about this. One reason given is to hide it from the Satan.
The Tefilah L'Moshe writes that declaring a particular person to be Moshiach violates the Gemora that says Moshiach will only come when we do NOT think about it. Meaning, any time we specify the details of Moshiach's arrival, we shove Moshiach straight into the crosshairs of the Satan. We need to pray for Moshiach, and to year for him, but the details we may not think about. The more we do think and talk about the details, the more we push Moshiach away and prevent his coming.
(PS: for a more complete treatment of this topic, see Divrei Yoel Naso p. 171-175)
---
It is true that they not even refer to non-religious Jews as "Rechokim", while at the same time they have referred to the Gaon Rav Shach ZTL as "shockingly arrogant" (Gasus nora'ah) ... he has Chutzpah and nerve (azus) and arrogance (gasus) ... on them (i.e. Rav Shach and those who follow him) applies the statement that they and Hashem are unable to dwell in the same place, and that they nurse from the Nachash Hakadmoni - their homes are filled with snakes and scorpions!" (Kfar Chabad #93).
Snakes and scorpions, huh? Lovers of all Jews! Please! In issue #88 of Kfar Chabad they refer to Orthodox Jews who they do not like as "Amalek in chareidi clothing", in issue #85 their opponents are called "sons of Korach". Other Orthodox Jews are "a gang of anti-semitic hunters of blood, from the worst and the very lowest that has appeared in world Jewry in the last generation" (Kfar Chabad #99).
Never will you find such language against apikorsim or kofrim from chabad. Non-religious Jews are not even "rechokim" but those who keep Mitzvos can be called "amalek in chareidi clothing". Want to know why? Check this out:
"This is the unique style of Chabad: 'Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace', and whose tool is 'Ahavas Yisroel', and on the other hand - to wage a powerful awesome and uncompromising stand in a War of G-d against those who rise against G-d and His Messiah"! (Kfar Chabad #100).
"Against G-d and His Messiah". That’s a quote. What must one do to rebel against G-d and His Messiah? Desecrate Shabbos? Deny G-d's existence? Eat pork? Nope. Not even those who are not tinokos shenishbu. Rather, you have to be Rav Shach ZTL, you can be a Gaon and Tzadik and Gadol Hador, but if you don’t believe in their Rebbe - well of course you’re denying "His Messiah".
Among those described in the most vilifying terms there is not one Mechalel Shabbos, not one Kofer in Hashem's existence, not one eater of non-Kosher food. All are Orthodox Jews.
---
They do put tefilin on goyim too, and it is wrong. Often they ask beforehand "Are you Jewish?", but not always.
Incidentally, if a Jew doesn’t believe in G-d, then he does not even get a Mitzvah for putting on Tefillin. If it will induce him to become frum down the road, fine, but if it’s a one time thing, it accomplished nothing.
---
Avrohom Avinu did "conversions", not Kiruv, true, but Kiruv is way older than Lubavitch, way older than the Baal Shem Tov. The Chovos Halevovos describes what a tremendous Zechus it is, and throughout the generations we have strived to do it within Torah guidelines. Even Shabse Tzvi ys"v did Kiruv - Rav Yaakov Sapaortes ZTL, one of the great fighters against him, write how thousands upon thousands of Jews became frum because of Shabse Tzvi, mainly because they wanted to be prepared for Moshiach, which they believed Shabse Tzvi ys"v was.
---
Avrohom avinu was the only Jew in the world so wherever he lived he lived among Goyim. And as he gathered his converts, they formed a community around him, so where he was always in some kind of Makom Torah, whatever was possible in those days.
Because Avrohom Avinu, an Av and a prophet, was able to live among the Goyim and survive, it does not prove at all that we can.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe not only sent people to do "shlichus" (sic) when they weren’t learning, but rather shlepped people screaming and kicking out of the Bais HaMedrash, telling them to close their seforim and go do Kiruv. One of these unfortunate souls was Shlomo Carlebach. When the Lubavitcher Rebbe told him he wants him to be his "shliach", Shlomo said "But I learn all day."
The Lubavitcher Rebbe's answer was "Stop thinking so much about yourself."
This story is recorded in the Sefer Lmaan Achai V'Raiai in an interview with Carlebach. Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL, who was Carlebach's Rosh Yeshiva at the time, was hurt and mortified at the Lubavitcher Rebbe's actions that ruined the life of Carlebach, causing him all his spiritual problems.
---
"With all do respect to you people (cuz shach dosent deserve any) he was going to be rosh yeshivah in the chabad yeshivah in Lod Israel back in the 50's and when he tried to give a shiur he said peshat opposite of rashi and commented that rashi doesn’t understand the gemorah and neither does the rambam! so he wasent hierd for the job... and therefore he hates chabad and tried to do everything in his power to stop it!!! and by the way did you know that in Tzvvat Harivash (that's the testament of the baal shem tov) he says that in every generation there is a tzadik and there is the one which opposes him (or tries at least) i.e. sitra achrah and in this case sitra achra is only a dog compared too shach enough said!"
Um, oookay. I posted your post so that everyone can see what kind of mythology is taught in Chabad. I have heard numerous variations of this fairy tale, all similar to what you are saying, and, needless to say, all impossible. Any ben Torah, and certainly a godol hador, would never even think of saying such a thing. We have hundreds of shiruim and peirushim from Rav Shach ZTL and of course not a single one will have anything close to the "approach" that you are attributing to him. Not him, not his students, not their students, etc. Not a single one. lo minei v'lo miktzasei.
So thank you for enlightening us, and please do continue to provide us with more information on why Chabad is not accepted in the Torah world.
---
There is no issur of loshon horah on alleged gedolim and manhigim, because klall yisroel has a right to know who their gedolim and authorities really are and how big or small or how real or phony they are.
And that's if you are revealing something that is not already known to the recipient of the information. But everything I said on the site about the Lubavitcher Rebbe are things that the Lubavitcher Rebbe himself has made public in his teachings and writings ---- I said absolutely nothing about the Lubavitcher Rebbe that would be loshon horah, even if it weren't a mitzvah in and of itself to explain to people that no, he is NOT moshiach, and no he is NOT a Torah authority, and no, do NOT believe what he says that we have been "blessed" with someone infinitely greater than everyone else in the generation who is its authority on ruchniyus and gasmiyus, and no, the bais hamikdash is not going to be built in 770, and that there is no heter to sleep outside of a sukkah because you’re mitztaer that you’re not mitztaer that you’re not on the level of your rebbe, and no, a rebbe is NOT atzmuso umahuso clothed in a body, ets etc etc
All I am doing is examining what the Lubavitcher Rebbe said and did and explaining what status those actions and statements have according to the Torah, as opposed to revealing loshon horah about him, which would mean hitherto unknown (to the listener at least) actions or statements.
I had no secret video cameras in 770. There is nothing here that the Lubavitcher Rebbe did not proudly proclaim.
But there IS an issur of hotzaas shem rah - slander - saying things that are lies. And so when the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that Rav Shach's tefillin are posul, or that the Satmar Chasidim are "against the teachings of the alter rebbe" and that’s why "they attacked" some lubavithchers that were missionizing children in WIlliansburgh, THAT was hotzoas shem rah of the worst kind.
What was the justification to hear and certainly to believe such loshon horah such lies - coming from your Rebbe?
There is none. It was assur for him to say those things as per the prohibition of hotzoas shem rah. And more.
The Gedolei Yisroel that also explained to us that the Lubavithcer Rebbe was a "shoteh" or a "mishugenah" or said "ignorant, falsified teachings" were also not saying loshon horah about him, but rather telling us what the Torah says about the man's teachings and actions, which we already knew about.
And those statements were made in public, to talmidim and more. And in the case of the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Shach, they are in writing, in their respective seforim.
And they were indeed "authentic tzadikim." This idea of "long time rivals" of the Lubavitcher Rebbe is more Lubavitch mythology, and is itself the worst strain of loshon horah - hotzoas shem rah. Rivals? What rivals? In Lubavitch anybody who rejects the Rebbe automatically becomes a "rival" and a "misnagid" and thus is unqualified to criticize him because he is not objective, but merely a "long time rival". That’s part of the Lubavitch brainwashing, circular reasoning and illogic that turns the Torah and reality upside down.
What they teach you in school and at home about the Gedolim holding the Lubavitcher Rebbe "in high esteem" is mythology. Rav Moshe accepted the tefilin because they were a gift to him from the Lubavitcher Rebbe, not because of any endorsement of the man. Most Gedolim had no idea of the things the Lubavitcher Rebbe said, because the Rebbe himself instructed people not to publicize anything that would not be accepted about Lubavitch.
In fact, until the later years, the entire moshiach business was difficult to believe to many people, who didn't know much about what was going on inside Chabad, nor much about the Rebbe's teachings. It wasn't as if the Gedolim read Likutei Sichos!
The approach of "either you say what I want you to say or I’m going to lose respect for you" is the typical ideological blackmail that the rabble tried to pull on rabbis who are puppets. It won't work. If you don't want to accept the teachings of the Torah, the Torah will not change for you.
---
When someone says the Rebbe is Moshiach, it means MY Moshiach too. There's only one Melech HaMoshiach redeemer. The Meshichists are declaring the Lubavitcher Rebbe as MY KING as well. Everyone has a right to say no it is not so.
Who am I? What qualifications does a Jew need to try to teach Torah to those who don't know it or correct those who falsify it? You tell me.
Just as you admit that you would try to convince someone who says Kiruv Rechokim is wrong, that he is mistaken, I am trying to convince you that you are mistaken.
The Meshichists are off the derech. They have violated the Torah and committed a terrible sin, as per the Yismach Moshe cited above. The punishment, the Gemora (Kesivos 112a) says, for that particular sin is that Jews are killed by the Goyim. And, as the Yismach Moshe points out, that Moshiach will not come until it stops.
I don't want Jews to die. And I do want Moshiach to come. Sorry if that's called sinas chinam to you.
And I do want Jews to believe in the Torah, and not to believe in anti-Torah hashkofos. Sorry if that's called sinas chinam to you.
Nobody is forcing you to believe anything. But you have no right, and, Boruch Hashem, no ability, to prevent others from saying the truth.
And you have no right to believe things that are against the Torah.
You have seen clearly that the Meshichists misquote, misrepresent, and distort the Torah. Anyone can access this website and try to defend them. Many have. Everyone who tried got posted (unless it was a repeat of someone else's post). All the well known "proofs" of the Meshichstin have been shown to be distortions, and their beliefs have been shown to be false. Can anyone defend them? I don't think so.
They should abandon their false beliefs, and do Teshuva, like we want all Jews to do.
---
A common response to saying that the Rebbe is not alive and it is crazy to say so is, "What gives you the authority to bash chassidus?"
So whatever any Lubavitcher guy does in the street suddenly becomes Chassidus?
Here's where the problems begin: The inability to distinguish, within Lubavitch between:
(a) what components are generic Torah and Mitzvos shared by all frum Jews
(b) what components are general chassidus - meaning they come from the Baal Shem Tov and his Talmidim, but are not shared by non-chasidim
(c) which components are specifically Chabad chassidus, meaning they come from the Baal HaTanya but are not shared by other Chasidim,
(d) which components come from the last Lubavitcher Rebbe but are not shared by classic Chabad Chassidus
(d) which components come from the Chassidim as interpretations of any or all of the above,
(e) which components come from the Chasidim as their own private "beliefs" or "feelings".
Unfortunately, there has been great confusion between all of the above categories, to the point where, in a Meshichist magazine, a Lubavitch chosid explains why he thought, for sure and without a doubt, that when the Lubavither Rebbe took out of a box the crown to put on the Sefer Torah that was written to "greet Moshiach", that the Rebbe would surely crown himself Moshiach and the Geulah would come right then and there. It was, he said, the "natural feeling of a chosid to his Rebbe."
No. Wrong. This is YOUR feeling to YOUR Rebbe. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yet by many in Lubavitch this is a hard pill to swallow.
Not everything you do becomes "Chasidus", or even "Chabad Chasidus".
The confusion between the above categories is what causes the confusion you feel now.
Because you cannot differentiate between the categories above - and you were "brought up" with all of them - you automatically think that I am going "against all you have been brought up with".
Nope, not at all. Much of what you were brought up with - most, for sure - is not being discussed here. The issue is NOT Chasidim and Misnagdim, the issue is that you have been brought up thinking that the actions of your community are some kind of a gestalt (i.e. a whole that cannot be separated into the sum of its parts) such that whenever criticism is leveled against it, the response is "you’re anti-Lubavitch".
You also need to understand the relationship between the categories, the purpose of each of them, and why they exist.
---
"The Person mentioned on your forum as a "GADOL" [Rav Aharon Kotler] committed murder, when he refused to feed the Chabad student starving to death in Shanghai, during the holocaust. He provided for every other Yeshiva student though.
And you say he is against "modern" Chabad? He is a simple anti semite bloody killer."
That such blood libels against the greatest Tzadikim in the world can exist is bad enough; that it was created by Jews makes it infinitely worse; and the fact that these Jews consider themselves religious makes it even worse than that. And, to add insult to injury, these evil people, who make up such stories against a living Sefer Torah, the great Gaon and Tzadik, Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL, also go around preaching that they stand out amongst Klall Yisroel because they "love all Jews".
I let this post go up because instead of an insult to Rav Aharon, it is actually an honor for him, since we see from it that those who opposed him because of his Torah objections to Chabad, were sickos. That such a Nazi-type blood libel against a Tzadik like Rav Ahron can exist, is in itself reason to cry, but that such a thing can come from Orthodox Jews is beyond description.
I have heard this horrific tale in Chabad before. It may help clarify things for many readers here.
There is no basis for the story. It’s an ex nihilo (out of nothing) fabrication. It still exists the same reason blood libels still exist - because evil people intentionally maintain their existence.
There are numerous reasons why I feel it's better not to give this story the time of day:
1) Because it's easy to make up a story out of thin air and almost impossible to disprove it, regardless of its absurdity. Prove, for instance, that your grandfather did not kill his little old lady next door neighbor. It is immoral and outrageous to make someone disprove a story if the story has no basis. The burden of proof is on he who wants to claim that a Tzadik HaDor was a murderer. Once you start "putting up your defense" you agree that there is a defense needed. That is not the case here. Just because some crazy people make up some crazy story doesn’t mean we have to spend our lives chasing down their lies and disproving them. Laughing at them is better.
2) After we disprove this story, they will just make up some other story. If Rav Aharon wasn’t a murderer, they will say he committed adultery, or he was a closet Jesus worshiper. There is no end to stories without basis.
3) These types of stories continue to live because life is injected into them by the elaborate effort put into disproving them. Rumors get worse the more you talk about them - pro or con. Hallucinations get worse when you fight them - they go away when you ignore them. This story is the fabrication of some evil Lubavitchers. The more it is spoken about, the more they will speak about it and therefore the more people will say "there’s 2 sides to the story". Lubavitch does this a lot. They come up with something so ridiculous that it is laughable, like some of their hashkofos that they have, and when you disprove them they throw out more words and speeches and articles, and when you disprove that they just repeat the first ones over and over, and you have to keep repeating yourself, and in the end people look at it and say "Hey, there's so much discussion going on, there must be two sides to the story". Well, that’s when you’re dealing with honest people. These people aren’t, and so that argument is not true in this context.
3) The story is already totally disproven. Anybody who knows anything about Rav Aharon ZTL knows that saving the life of a single Jew - whoever, whenever, wherever - was more important to him than anything else. Moshe Rabbeinu was accused of stealing, and -- HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T STEAL????? - you have no proof he was innocent! But if anyone knows who Moshe Rabbeinu was, they know the story is an evil canard. Same thing here.
4) The difference between this and the Torah is that the Torah is honestly misunderstood by people who honestly need to know if it is true. They deserve the answers. But in this case, the doubts are not honest, they are contrived purposely in order to do evil. That we should not engage.
What we should do when we hear such a story is laugh at its stupidity. And cry for the souls of the evil people in Chabad that are telling it, and for the fact that these people who claim to be "religious" and even "chasidim" are capable of purposely spitting on a Sefer Torah, in order to get people to believe in their movement.
And cry for a movement that needs to spit on a Sefer Torah in order to get people to follow it.
---
The Chabad method of Kiruv, where you send somebody out to live among the Goyim and non-Jews without any Torah community is opposed by the Torah, as we find in Pirkei Avos, that even if you can accomplish a lot in terms of Kiruv by living in a non-Makom Torah, you should not go there, as Rav Yosi Ben Kisma explained.
Regarding the "Moshiach campaign," it, too, is counter to what the Torah wants, and only serves to make sure Moshiach is gets further away from coming, r"l. Moshiach will not come until people give up hope of Geulah, the Gemora says (Sanhedrin 97). Moshiach will only come when we are NOT thinking about him, it says.
We pray for Moshiach every day, and we are obligated to yearn for his coming, but the specifics about when who and how Moshiach’s arrival will take place, is forbidden for us to ponder, and it pushes the Geulah further away.
The reason is as follows:
When Moshiach comes, it will be the total and final downfall of evil in the world. The Satan therefore exerts all his energies to make sure Moshiach does not come, or to delay his arrival as much as possible, for his (the Satan’s) very survival depends on this delay.
So dedicated is the Satan to Moshiach’s not coming, says the Arizal, that Moshiach’s Neshomah had to “sneak in” to this world in a way that the Satan would not notice, through an act of incest between Lot and his daughters. And then through Rus and Boaz. The Satan and his minions, who are so on the lookout to destroy for anything that has to do with Moshiach, would exert all his energies to prevent the great soul of Moshiach from entering the world. So Hashem arranged it to slip in, in a way that the Satan never expected.
The Yismach Moshe (Chasidic master and Halachic authority, and student of the Seer of Lublin) explains that this is why the Halachah of “amoni vlo amonis, moavi vlo moavis” was forgotten (or: hidden) from the masses until the time came for its application. For this was the Halachah that allowed King David to enter into Klall Yisroel. And King David's entry needs to remain "under the radar" of the Satan.
We must understand that the Satan and his terrorist groups are lying in wait for Moshiach. Any hint of his arrival will automatically attract the attention of the Satan. Moshiach will be "snuck in" to this world by Hashem in a way that we are not allowed to contemplate. The Satan knows Moshiach is coming. But when how and who must remain hidden from the Satan. We pray and yearn for Moshiach’s coming in general. But maneuvering Moshiach into the world safe from the radar and cross hairs of the Satan is Hashem's job. Only Hashem can accomplish that. But one thing we know: Hashem must bring Moshiach into the world in a way the Satan least expects it, and is unprepared for it.
The poor person will not be forgotten forever, but the hope of the poor will be lost forever. (Tehilim 9). Explains the Bina L'Itim: The poor Klall Yisroel in Golus will not be lost forever. Moshiach WILL come. BUT! The hope of the poor will be lost forever. The way and the vision that we have of Moshiach's arrival will NOT happen. The Geulah will not happen the way we think it will, it cannot. We don't know how Moshiach will come, but one thing we do know is he will not come the way we expect him to come.
Moshiach can't come in an expected way. He was born under the radar and he will come under the radar. Hashem always hid the time of the final redemption from us. When Yaakov Avinu tried to reveal it, Hashem would not let. The prophets told of many things, but nothing about this. One reason given is to hide it from the Satan.
The Tefilah L'Moshe writes that declaring a particular person to be Moshiach violates the Gemora that says Moshiach will only come when we do NOT think about it. Meaning, any time we specify the details of Moshiach's arrival, we shove Moshiach straight into the crosshairs of the Satan. We need to pray for Moshiach, and to year for him, but the details we may not think about. The more we do think and talk about the details, the more we push Moshiach away and prevent his coming.
(PS: for a more complete treatment of this topic, see Divrei Yoel Naso p. 171-175)
---
It is true that they not even refer to non-religious Jews as "Rechokim", while at the same time they have referred to the Gaon Rav Shach ZTL as "shockingly arrogant" (Gasus nora'ah) ... he has Chutzpah and nerve (azus) and arrogance (gasus) ... on them (i.e. Rav Shach and those who follow him) applies the statement that they and Hashem are unable to dwell in the same place, and that they nurse from the Nachash Hakadmoni - their homes are filled with snakes and scorpions!" (Kfar Chabad #93).
Snakes and scorpions, huh? Lovers of all Jews! Please! In issue #88 of Kfar Chabad they refer to Orthodox Jews who they do not like as "Amalek in chareidi clothing", in issue #85 their opponents are called "sons of Korach". Other Orthodox Jews are "a gang of anti-semitic hunters of blood, from the worst and the very lowest that has appeared in world Jewry in the last generation" (Kfar Chabad #99).
Never will you find such language against apikorsim or kofrim from chabad. Non-religious Jews are not even "rechokim" but those who keep Mitzvos can be called "amalek in chareidi clothing". Want to know why? Check this out:
"This is the unique style of Chabad: 'Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace', and whose tool is 'Ahavas Yisroel', and on the other hand - to wage a powerful awesome and uncompromising stand in a War of G-d against those who rise against G-d and His Messiah"! (Kfar Chabad #100).
"Against G-d and His Messiah". That’s a quote. What must one do to rebel against G-d and His Messiah? Desecrate Shabbos? Deny G-d's existence? Eat pork? Nope. Not even those who are not tinokos shenishbu. Rather, you have to be Rav Shach ZTL, you can be a Gaon and Tzadik and Gadol Hador, but if you don’t believe in their Rebbe - well of course you’re denying "His Messiah".
Among those described in the most vilifying terms there is not one Mechalel Shabbos, not one Kofer in Hashem's existence, not one eater of non-Kosher food. All are Orthodox Jews.
---
They do put tefilin on goyim too, and it is wrong. Often they ask beforehand "Are you Jewish?", but not always.
Incidentally, if a Jew doesn’t believe in G-d, then he does not even get a Mitzvah for putting on Tefillin. If it will induce him to become frum down the road, fine, but if it’s a one time thing, it accomplished nothing.
---
Avrohom Avinu did "conversions", not Kiruv, true, but Kiruv is way older than Lubavitch, way older than the Baal Shem Tov. The Chovos Halevovos describes what a tremendous Zechus it is, and throughout the generations we have strived to do it within Torah guidelines. Even Shabse Tzvi ys"v did Kiruv - Rav Yaakov Sapaortes ZTL, one of the great fighters against him, write how thousands upon thousands of Jews became frum because of Shabse Tzvi, mainly because they wanted to be prepared for Moshiach, which they believed Shabse Tzvi ys"v was.
---
Avrohom avinu was the only Jew in the world so wherever he lived he lived among Goyim. And as he gathered his converts, they formed a community around him, so where he was always in some kind of Makom Torah, whatever was possible in those days.
Because Avrohom Avinu, an Av and a prophet, was able to live among the Goyim and survive, it does not prove at all that we can.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe not only sent people to do "shlichus" (sic) when they weren’t learning, but rather shlepped people screaming and kicking out of the Bais HaMedrash, telling them to close their seforim and go do Kiruv. One of these unfortunate souls was Shlomo Carlebach. When the Lubavitcher Rebbe told him he wants him to be his "shliach", Shlomo said "But I learn all day."
The Lubavitcher Rebbe's answer was "Stop thinking so much about yourself."
This story is recorded in the Sefer Lmaan Achai V'Raiai in an interview with Carlebach. Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL, who was Carlebach's Rosh Yeshiva at the time, was hurt and mortified at the Lubavitcher Rebbe's actions that ruined the life of Carlebach, causing him all his spiritual problems.
---
"With all do respect to you people (cuz shach dosent deserve any) he was going to be rosh yeshivah in the chabad yeshivah in Lod Israel back in the 50's and when he tried to give a shiur he said peshat opposite of rashi and commented that rashi doesn’t understand the gemorah and neither does the rambam! so he wasent hierd for the job... and therefore he hates chabad and tried to do everything in his power to stop it!!! and by the way did you know that in Tzvvat Harivash (that's the testament of the baal shem tov) he says that in every generation there is a tzadik and there is the one which opposes him (or tries at least) i.e. sitra achrah and in this case sitra achra is only a dog compared too shach enough said!"
Um, oookay. I posted your post so that everyone can see what kind of mythology is taught in Chabad. I have heard numerous variations of this fairy tale, all similar to what you are saying, and, needless to say, all impossible. Any ben Torah, and certainly a godol hador, would never even think of saying such a thing. We have hundreds of shiruim and peirushim from Rav Shach ZTL and of course not a single one will have anything close to the "approach" that you are attributing to him. Not him, not his students, not their students, etc. Not a single one. lo minei v'lo miktzasei.
So thank you for enlightening us, and please do continue to provide us with more information on why Chabad is not accepted in the Torah world.
---
There is no issur of loshon horah on alleged gedolim and manhigim, because klall yisroel has a right to know who their gedolim and authorities really are and how big or small or how real or phony they are.
And that's if you are revealing something that is not already known to the recipient of the information. But everything I said on the site about the Lubavitcher Rebbe are things that the Lubavitcher Rebbe himself has made public in his teachings and writings ---- I said absolutely nothing about the Lubavitcher Rebbe that would be loshon horah, even if it weren't a mitzvah in and of itself to explain to people that no, he is NOT moshiach, and no he is NOT a Torah authority, and no, do NOT believe what he says that we have been "blessed" with someone infinitely greater than everyone else in the generation who is its authority on ruchniyus and gasmiyus, and no, the bais hamikdash is not going to be built in 770, and that there is no heter to sleep outside of a sukkah because you’re mitztaer that you’re not mitztaer that you’re not on the level of your rebbe, and no, a rebbe is NOT atzmuso umahuso clothed in a body, ets etc etc
All I am doing is examining what the Lubavitcher Rebbe said and did and explaining what status those actions and statements have according to the Torah, as opposed to revealing loshon horah about him, which would mean hitherto unknown (to the listener at least) actions or statements.
I had no secret video cameras in 770. There is nothing here that the Lubavitcher Rebbe did not proudly proclaim.
But there IS an issur of hotzaas shem rah - slander - saying things that are lies. And so when the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that Rav Shach's tefillin are posul, or that the Satmar Chasidim are "against the teachings of the alter rebbe" and that’s why "they attacked" some lubavithchers that were missionizing children in WIlliansburgh, THAT was hotzoas shem rah of the worst kind.
What was the justification to hear and certainly to believe such loshon horah such lies - coming from your Rebbe?
There is none. It was assur for him to say those things as per the prohibition of hotzoas shem rah. And more.
The Gedolei Yisroel that also explained to us that the Lubavithcer Rebbe was a "shoteh" or a "mishugenah" or said "ignorant, falsified teachings" were also not saying loshon horah about him, but rather telling us what the Torah says about the man's teachings and actions, which we already knew about.
And those statements were made in public, to talmidim and more. And in the case of the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Shach, they are in writing, in their respective seforim.
And they were indeed "authentic tzadikim." This idea of "long time rivals" of the Lubavitcher Rebbe is more Lubavitch mythology, and is itself the worst strain of loshon horah - hotzoas shem rah. Rivals? What rivals? In Lubavitch anybody who rejects the Rebbe automatically becomes a "rival" and a "misnagid" and thus is unqualified to criticize him because he is not objective, but merely a "long time rival". That’s part of the Lubavitch brainwashing, circular reasoning and illogic that turns the Torah and reality upside down.
What they teach you in school and at home about the Gedolim holding the Lubavitcher Rebbe "in high esteem" is mythology. Rav Moshe accepted the tefilin because they were a gift to him from the Lubavitcher Rebbe, not because of any endorsement of the man. Most Gedolim had no idea of the things the Lubavitcher Rebbe said, because the Rebbe himself instructed people not to publicize anything that would not be accepted about Lubavitch.
In fact, until the later years, the entire moshiach business was difficult to believe to many people, who didn't know much about what was going on inside Chabad, nor much about the Rebbe's teachings. It wasn't as if the Gedolim read Likutei Sichos!
The approach of "either you say what I want you to say or I’m going to lose respect for you" is the typical ideological blackmail that the rabble tried to pull on rabbis who are puppets. It won't work. If you don't want to accept the teachings of the Torah, the Torah will not change for you.
---
When someone says the Rebbe is Moshiach, it means MY Moshiach too. There's only one Melech HaMoshiach redeemer. The Meshichists are declaring the Lubavitcher Rebbe as MY KING as well. Everyone has a right to say no it is not so.
Who am I? What qualifications does a Jew need to try to teach Torah to those who don't know it or correct those who falsify it? You tell me.
Just as you admit that you would try to convince someone who says Kiruv Rechokim is wrong, that he is mistaken, I am trying to convince you that you are mistaken.
The Meshichists are off the derech. They have violated the Torah and committed a terrible sin, as per the Yismach Moshe cited above. The punishment, the Gemora (Kesivos 112a) says, for that particular sin is that Jews are killed by the Goyim. And, as the Yismach Moshe points out, that Moshiach will not come until it stops.
I don't want Jews to die. And I do want Moshiach to come. Sorry if that's called sinas chinam to you.
And I do want Jews to believe in the Torah, and not to believe in anti-Torah hashkofos. Sorry if that's called sinas chinam to you.
Nobody is forcing you to believe anything. But you have no right, and, Boruch Hashem, no ability, to prevent others from saying the truth.
And you have no right to believe things that are against the Torah.
You have seen clearly that the Meshichists misquote, misrepresent, and distort the Torah. Anyone can access this website and try to defend them. Many have. Everyone who tried got posted (unless it was a repeat of someone else's post). All the well known "proofs" of the Meshichstin have been shown to be distortions, and their beliefs have been shown to be false. Can anyone defend them? I don't think so.
They should abandon their false beliefs, and do Teshuva, like we want all Jews to do.
---
A common response to saying that the Rebbe is not alive and it is crazy to say so is, "What gives you the authority to bash chassidus?"
So whatever any Lubavitcher guy does in the street suddenly becomes Chassidus?
Here's where the problems begin: The inability to distinguish, within Lubavitch between:
(a) what components are generic Torah and Mitzvos shared by all frum Jews
(b) what components are general chassidus - meaning they come from the Baal Shem Tov and his Talmidim, but are not shared by non-chasidim
(c) which components are specifically Chabad chassidus, meaning they come from the Baal HaTanya but are not shared by other Chasidim,
(d) which components come from the last Lubavitcher Rebbe but are not shared by classic Chabad Chassidus
(d) which components come from the Chassidim as interpretations of any or all of the above,
(e) which components come from the Chasidim as their own private "beliefs" or "feelings".
Unfortunately, there has been great confusion between all of the above categories, to the point where, in a Meshichist magazine, a Lubavitch chosid explains why he thought, for sure and without a doubt, that when the Lubavither Rebbe took out of a box the crown to put on the Sefer Torah that was written to "greet Moshiach", that the Rebbe would surely crown himself Moshiach and the Geulah would come right then and there. It was, he said, the "natural feeling of a chosid to his Rebbe."
No. Wrong. This is YOUR feeling to YOUR Rebbe. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yet by many in Lubavitch this is a hard pill to swallow.
Not everything you do becomes "Chasidus", or even "Chabad Chasidus".
The confusion between the above categories is what causes the confusion you feel now.
Because you cannot differentiate between the categories above - and you were "brought up" with all of them - you automatically think that I am going "against all you have been brought up with".
Nope, not at all. Much of what you were brought up with - most, for sure - is not being discussed here. The issue is NOT Chasidim and Misnagdim, the issue is that you have been brought up thinking that the actions of your community are some kind of a gestalt (i.e. a whole that cannot be separated into the sum of its parts) such that whenever criticism is leveled against it, the response is "you’re anti-Lubavitch".
You also need to understand the relationship between the categories, the purpose of each of them, and why they exist.
---
"The Person mentioned on your forum as a "GADOL" [Rav Aharon Kotler] committed murder, when he refused to feed the Chabad student starving to death in Shanghai, during the holocaust. He provided for every other Yeshiva student though.
And you say he is against "modern" Chabad? He is a simple anti semite bloody killer."
That such blood libels against the greatest Tzadikim in the world can exist is bad enough; that it was created by Jews makes it infinitely worse; and the fact that these Jews consider themselves religious makes it even worse than that. And, to add insult to injury, these evil people, who make up such stories against a living Sefer Torah, the great Gaon and Tzadik, Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL, also go around preaching that they stand out amongst Klall Yisroel because they "love all Jews".
I let this post go up because instead of an insult to Rav Aharon, it is actually an honor for him, since we see from it that those who opposed him because of his Torah objections to Chabad, were sickos. That such a Nazi-type blood libel against a Tzadik like Rav Ahron can exist, is in itself reason to cry, but that such a thing can come from Orthodox Jews is beyond description.
I have heard this horrific tale in Chabad before. It may help clarify things for many readers here.
There is no basis for the story. It’s an ex nihilo (out of nothing) fabrication. It still exists the same reason blood libels still exist - because evil people intentionally maintain their existence.
There are numerous reasons why I feel it's better not to give this story the time of day:
1) Because it's easy to make up a story out of thin air and almost impossible to disprove it, regardless of its absurdity. Prove, for instance, that your grandfather did not kill his little old lady next door neighbor. It is immoral and outrageous to make someone disprove a story if the story has no basis. The burden of proof is on he who wants to claim that a Tzadik HaDor was a murderer. Once you start "putting up your defense" you agree that there is a defense needed. That is not the case here. Just because some crazy people make up some crazy story doesn’t mean we have to spend our lives chasing down their lies and disproving them. Laughing at them is better.
2) After we disprove this story, they will just make up some other story. If Rav Aharon wasn’t a murderer, they will say he committed adultery, or he was a closet Jesus worshiper. There is no end to stories without basis.
3) These types of stories continue to live because life is injected into them by the elaborate effort put into disproving them. Rumors get worse the more you talk about them - pro or con. Hallucinations get worse when you fight them - they go away when you ignore them. This story is the fabrication of some evil Lubavitchers. The more it is spoken about, the more they will speak about it and therefore the more people will say "there’s 2 sides to the story". Lubavitch does this a lot. They come up with something so ridiculous that it is laughable, like some of their hashkofos that they have, and when you disprove them they throw out more words and speeches and articles, and when you disprove that they just repeat the first ones over and over, and you have to keep repeating yourself, and in the end people look at it and say "Hey, there's so much discussion going on, there must be two sides to the story". Well, that’s when you’re dealing with honest people. These people aren’t, and so that argument is not true in this context.
3) The story is already totally disproven. Anybody who knows anything about Rav Aharon ZTL knows that saving the life of a single Jew - whoever, whenever, wherever - was more important to him than anything else. Moshe Rabbeinu was accused of stealing, and -- HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T STEAL????? - you have no proof he was innocent! But if anyone knows who Moshe Rabbeinu was, they know the story is an evil canard. Same thing here.
4) The difference between this and the Torah is that the Torah is honestly misunderstood by people who honestly need to know if it is true. They deserve the answers. But in this case, the doubts are not honest, they are contrived purposely in order to do evil. That we should not engage.
What we should do when we hear such a story is laugh at its stupidity. And cry for the souls of the evil people in Chabad that are telling it, and for the fact that these people who claim to be "religious" and even "chasidim" are capable of purposely spitting on a Sefer Torah, in order to get people to believe in their movement.
And cry for a movement that needs to spit on a Sefer Torah in order to get people to follow it.
---
Labels: Lubavitch
posted by Moderator at 1:08 PM
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
<< Home