Sunday, August 27, 2006

Zionism Misc. III

The existence of the State of Israel is against the Torah, regardless of what their policies are. As the Brisker Rav ZTL said, "It wouldn't matter if Rav Chaim Ozer was running the State of Israel - its existence is still against the Torah."

The Gedolim were against creating a Jewish State, even if its creators were holy and pious Tzadikim. This, too, is Zionist propaganda, that the objection to Zionism was because the Zionists were not frum.

Rabbi Pardes describes the meeting of hundreds of Rabbonim, Rebbes and Roshei Yeshiva and Rebbes in the summer of '37 at the third convention of the rabbinical leaders of Agudath Israel. Quote:

“Rabbi (Elchonon) Wasserman, Rabbi (Ahron) Kotler, Rabbi Rottenberg from Antwerp, rabbis from Czechoslovakia and Hungary were unanimous in rejecting any proposal for a “Jewish State” on either side of the Jordan River, even if it were established as a religious state because such a regime would be a form of heresy in our faith in the belief in the coming of the Messiah, and especially since this little “Jewish” state would be built on heresy and desecration of the Name of G-d.”

The Rabbi Shlomo Rottenberg ZTL (author of Toldos Am Olam), who also attended the Convention in '37 used to say that he could still remember what was discussed there, and the harsh opposition of these rabbinical leaders to a “Jewish State” that is a violation of the Three Oaths mentioned in the Talmud. (From Rabbi A.L. Spitzer)

You can also find this sentiment expressly stated in a letter of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Rashab, that even if all the Zionists were frum and holy, we would still oppose the creation of a Jewish State because it is a violation of the Oaths.

The Brisker Rav told Rav Amram Blau, "Even if you were running the Medinah it would still be a toevah", or as the Satmar Rebbe said "Even if the Zionists would be on the level of Tanaim and Amorayim there would be no difference in the prohibition to have the State of Israel." Or as Rav Ahron Kotler ZTL said, the very existence of a state of israel, even if run according to the Torah, is a violation of our obligation to wait for Moshiach.

The existence of the State of Israel itself is the problem, and just as we would not say that driving in a car on Shabbos is OK if it is done in order to go to Shul, so too we do not say that the state of israel is ok if it is done in order to become a tool for more torah and mitzvos.

As far as respect, Zionism is looked at not as a disagreeing view such as for instance the machlokes whether gelatin is kosher or not, but rather as a deviant heretical movement, such as that of Korach, who also was a "godol" possessed of ruach hakodesh and supported by 250 members of the sanhedrin.


The foundation of being mamleches kohanim and goy kadosh is adherence to Torah and Mitzvos - it has nothing to do, neither as a cause or effect of, having an army and being a "physical" nation.

In fact, Rav Saadiah Gaon stated that the Jewish Nation is different from all the other nations in that we are a Nation only by virtue of all of us having the Torah, as opposed to a common language, food, army, culture, etc.

It is apikorsus to say that our status as a "nation" is enhanced by our attaining the "nation" stuff of the Goyim. This is one of the most insidious Zionist teachings: That in order to be more of a "nation" we must have a State.


As far as the Geulah in stages, nowhere does it include as one of the stages, having a State in Eretz Yisroel or anywhere else for that matter.


Nationalism is not a Jewish concept, and was condemned as simple idolatry by the Torah leaders, most famously Rav Elchonon Wasserman, leading student of the Chofetz Chaim, a vehement opponent of Zionism, which makes it a crime and distortion for someone to quote the Chofetz Chaim's teachings in defense of something he opposed as heresy.

"However distant the stated goals of the secular Zionists may be from holiness, it is not in their hands to remove G-d from the Nation of Israel’s national aspirations. Any lack of recognition (by the secular or the religious!) that this Divine inner source is behind all the amazing events of our era does not change this fact."

Fact, huh? National aspirations?? Our aspirations were never to create a State for ourselves, especially not in Eretz Yisroel. To do so is assur. And what you refer to as "secular Zionists" whose goals were "far from holiness" the Chofetz Chaim referred to as "from the seed of Amalek" (quoted by Reb Elchonon in a well-publicized letter).

It is unfortunate that in Zionist circles they minimize the vast revulsion that the Torah leaders had for Zionism - including religious Zionism.

Because of this falsification of the "Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah", I will sum up with a quote from Rav Elchonon Wasserman ZTL - member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah and talmid muvhak of the Chofetz Chaim:

"Nationalism is avodah zorah; religious nationalism is just avodah zorah mixed with religion"

(Ikvesa D'Meshichah)


From Rabbi Weinberg:

With regards to the medinah-how can a Jew who believes in the Ribono shel olam relate to the medina? It is anti-God from its inception. When they proclaimed the State of Israel they made it clear, officially, that there is no God of Israel. The only other nation in the world that followed this path was Communist Russia. These were the only two countries in the world who, in proclaiming their freedom, refused to mention God. As a compromise, they accepted "Tzur Yisroel," the Rock of Israel, so that it should not, chas v'shalom, be the God of Israel or of the world. "Tzur" gives everybody the option to interpret it any way they want. You cannot relate to a medinah that is built on such a premise.

You have to understand more deeply. The medinah not only rejects God but also rejects the whole history of K'lal Yisroel since the churban until the establishment of the State. The "galut mentality" is not only deprecated but is also dealt with contempt, and all those years of K'lal Yisroel's mesiras nefesh, harbatzas Torah, building and creating, are looked at as an aberration and are rejected. How can you relate to a medinah that does that? We cannot. We can relate to the Jews in Eretz Yisroel-frum or not-to their needs, their safety, their financial well being. But to the State-it is impossible for a Jew who has a Ribono shel olam, a Jew who has a respect for 2000 years of Jewish history, to relate to the medinah. It is impossible. So we have to speak about Eretz Yisroel, about its importance and preciousness, and about the waiting of all of K'lal Yisroel to come back to it, without dealing with the medinah. We cannot deal with the medinah! It is impossible!

I am just going to ask a question and I am sorry if it will offend someone, I really would like not to. How can a Jew celebrate a Yom Ha'atzmaut, the day of the proclamation of the State of Israel that rejects God as being involved? I would ask you to think a minute and see whether you can think of a greater chilul Hashem that has occurred in all the history of K'lal Yisroel, from creation until the day that the proclamation was made, than the proclaiming of a State of Israel without God? The United States is under God; England in under God; France is under God... Communist Russia and Israel are not under God! I am asking you in all honesty, can you think of a deeper, more far-reaching chilul Hashem that has ever taken place in the history of the world than that-than Jews officially rejecting God? This is an awesome chilul Hashem. If we had a Sanhedrin it would be a day of fasting and mourning. It would be a Tisha B'av. A day in which a Jewish state was proclaimed by officially rejecting God is literally a Tisha B'av, a churban she'ain kamohu. I am asking you to be a little honest-how can you celebrate a day that such a chilul Hashem took place? The truth is the truth; I do not know how you can live with it.


They claim it is the official homeland of the Jewish People, to the point where they decide whoever is "Jewish" may have a place there - and their idea of "Jewish" is nothing but. They've actually re-defined what the definition of a Jew is. Only a religion can define what the requirements for its followers are - the world knows that - and the State has taken it upon itself to do that job.

The Zionists are constantly saying that "Israel" gives the assimilated or would-be assimilated Jews a "Jewish" identity.

To the world, Israel is the representative of the Jewish people. What they do reflects the collective voice of the Jews.

When the word is upset with Israel, they automatically think they are upset with the Jews. They burn down synagogues in France because they’re angry (rightfully or wrongfully) with what Israel does in the territories.

I am not responsible for what Sharon and those not following Judaism do. I did not elect them to represent me, and nobody elected them to represent Judaism or Jews. Merely to govern a secular country politically. An attack on him is NOT an attack on all Jews.


The problem with the government in Israel is not that its not "the kind of" Jewish government we want, but rather that it's not Jewish altogether! We are simply not allowed to own Eretz Yisroel in Golus. It's as simple as that. And davening at the Kosel is not a heter.

And the deaths of Jews that it takes to defend and maintain that government is not worth it even if having Eretz Yisroel would not be assur. For Shabbos we would not give up a single Jewish life - we are mechalel Shabbos and violate all Mitzvos to save a single life. Davening at the Kosel is not a bigger Mitzvah than Shabbos. It’s very nice to daven there but if Jews have to defend that with their lives, then we give up the kosel rather than the lives.


Some zionists may be "religious", but as Rav Elchonon Wasserman succinctly put it, all that means is they follow religion and avodah zorah both. If that offends you, I don’t blame you, but your response should be "OK, if I'm wrong, I will change," rather than "You can't say the truth because I refuse to change and therefore it offends me". After all, it's not as if the Zionists have ever defended themselves against the Torah leaders with actual legitimate defenses for their actions. So please, don't kill the messenger. It's not my fault (or better: I don't get the credit for) what the Torah said.

The idea that Zionists are more interested in their state than Jewish lives is clear even in the religious Zionist circles. They tell people that Israel is the safest place for Jews in the world even though reality is that your chances of surviving there as a Jew are less than anywhere else in the world; they purposely put their own lives and the lives of their families in danger settling literally in war zones in the name of "Zionism" and "not giving up land". Well, giving up life is much worse than giving up land.

Different Gedolim emphasized different angles of the sin of Zionism. Many Litvishe Gedolim, such as Rav Elchonon Wasserman and Rav Shach ZTL, emphasized more than anything else the avodah zorah of valuing the land of Eretz Yisroel way beyond and apart from the amount and the way the Torah values it, thus creating a synthetic value within Judaism, in other words, literally an avodah zorah.

In religious Zionist circles, you can tell them that you "don't believe in shomer negiyah" (sic) or that you don't believe in women covering their hair, and although they will understand that that is wrong, you will not be considered "the enemy"; you can even tell your friends that you don't want to keep Shabbos because it doesn't make sense to you, and they'll be sad for you, and try to help you, and they will know you are wrong, but you're not "the enemy." But go tell a religious Zionist that you're against the State of Israel, and now you're the enemy. You're beyond comprehension to them. And worse, if you tell them that you’re pro-palestinian.

I am fully aware that I am generalizing. Nevertheless, it is a true generalization. And the reason why such an attitude can exist - that support of Israel is what makes you a friend of the Jews and being against Israel is what makes you their enemy (when in reality support of Judaism makes you a friend of the Jews, and being against our religion makes you our enemy) is due to the avodah zorah of Zionism.

The fact that Orthodox schools can have pictures of enemies of Hashem like Ben Gurion hanging in the halls as if they were heroes, shows that Zionists have lost the values of our religion. Hanging a Ben Gurion or a Herzl on your wall is worse than hanging an Arafat or a Bin Laden. The Arafats only want to kill our physical bodies; the Ben Gurions wanted to kill out souls.

The State of Israel was, from its conception, even before its inception (Rav Elchonon was nifter in 1939), an avodah zorah. And that applies even if you are religious.


The difference between Ben Gurion and the religious Mizrachi was that Ben Gurion was an atheist idol worshiper, and the religious Mizrachi are religious Orthodox Jewish idol worshipers.

Rav Soloveichik's Zionism is also included in that, and he knew it also - he himself had mentioned many times how his grandfather, Rav Chaim ZTL was fire against religious Zionism. The problem is, he never explained to his people WHY his superiors were against religious Zionism - if he would have explained that, you may have understood what I am writing here - nor are the reasons he gives for defying his superiors anything close to adequate.

When I mention the fact that Zionists - religious ones as well - put the Zionist State over Jewish lives, that includes statement such as Rav Soloveichik made (recorded in Five Addresses p.79) that even though it is clearly the State of Israel that caused the Arabs to become bloodthirsty enemies of the Jews, and thus is the cause of Jewish deaths, if the State of Israel would be religious, then "all the sacrifices would be worthwhile".

That is the problem. The State of Israel, religious or otherwise, is NOT worth the a single Jewish life, even if it were not forbidden to exist. The thousands upon thousands of lives that it has cost us so far since 1948, and possible millions before that in the holocaust due to (a) Zionist efforts to make sure that Jews cannot escape Europe to anywhere except Israel, and (b) the Zionist instigation of the Mufti of Jerusalem, which was probably the motivation for him to convince Hitler to kill the Jews as opposed to expelling them (see Rav Hutner's article quoted elsewhere on this site, regarding the State of Israel's role, i.e. Zionists, in causing the Holocaust). And his struggles in trying to defend the deaths of Jews for the sake of the State (quoted in Nefesh HaRav p.98) fail, both halachicly and morally.

And even though the religious Zionists are not ben Gurion, the fact that religious Zionist institutions still hail him as a Jewish hero, or even do not denounce him as a villain, worse even than Arafat or Bin Laden, puts them in a position that Torah Jews do not want to be share. As Rav Elchonon Wasserman said about this, the rule Ish Lefi Mahalalo defines those who praise evil doers as being the same.

The enemies of G-d - such as Ben Gurion - are our enemies as well.

Haman only tried to kill our bodies; Ben Gurion and Herzl tried to kill our souls.


For 2,000 years nobody considered Yishuv Haaretz a problem - not Rava and Abaye, not the Rambam and the Rashba, and not the Chofetz Chaim or Rav Chaim Ozer.

First off, there is a machlokes if yishuv haarentz is a mitzvah nowadays - many, many, probably the majority, hold it is not. Rav Shlomo Kluger writes that this is the reason the Gedolim throughout the generation did not go to live in EY - they obviously hold, he says, that there is no obligation to do so. The Chofetz Chaim, too, writes that the Tzadikim who live and lived in Chutz Laaretz are and were relying on the opinions that Yishuv Haaretz is not a mitzvah nowadays.

And even if it is, (a) if we can't fulfill it, then we are de-obligated due to the rule of ones, (b) many Jews have always lived in EY throughout history - even when the Arabs owned it (just ask any Zionist and they'll tell you there was always "a Jewish presence" in EY throughout golus). The Arabs had no problem living with Jews until the Zionists started this ongoing war with them.

Beyond all that, if Hashem said not to make a State because if we do, we will "Be killed like animals" (that’s a quote), then you would not be concerned with Yishuv Haaretz --- for years in the desert Jews did not have bris milah because it was a sakanah to do it; we are mechalel Shabbos gladly to save the life of one Jew --- hundreds of people would, to save one life. If Jews will be killed, then Yishuv Haaretz is suspended.

In any case, Hashem said he does not want the Jews to have a State. It’s as simple as that. Come what may.


The Sanhedrin that has been established in Yerushalayim is not legit. It has no status at all.


To the Zionists, if you’re against Zionism, nothing you do matters; you’re no good. An issue of Jewish Action, a Modern Orthodox magazine of the OU, featured an article about In that same issue, there was an article decrying the disgusting practice of "kiddush clubs" that many Shuls have in their community. A Kiddush club is - I am not making this up - where in the middle of davening, usually during the Haftorah or Leining, a bunch of people go out and make kiddush, while the shul is still davening, and often come back drunk, or close to drunk. It's sick, I know, but that’s what they do.

So this magazine was saying what a bad thing it is, and of course they’re right. But you have no idea how much resistance this attitude is getting - what’s so bad, let's lead by example not by criticizing, you have to deal with people on their level, not tell them what to do blah blah - they say. I was talking to one of those people who don’t see the disgustingness of these kiddush clubs. He knows it's not 100% the best thing in the world, but he doesn’t understand, what with all the problems in Klall Yisroel, that the Modern Orthodox establishment is bothered by Kiddush Clubs.

So I asked him, "What would you think if they walked out in the middle of the Tefilah L'shlom Hamedinah (the prayer for the State of Israel, that Zionists say in Shul on Shabbos), to make kiddush and get drunk?"

The guy freaked. Despicable, disgusting, a soneh yisroel, he said, if someone were to chas vsholom chas vsholom chas vsholom belittle the prayer for the Zionist State by walking out to make kiddush, joke, and drink, while everyone was standing at attention in Shul saying it.

So I asked him why is the Haftorah less deserving of respect than the Tefilah Lsholom Hamedinah?

Then he was really shocked. "Uhh, aaah, uhh," he said. Something to that effect.

Look up the phrase "sacred cow" in the dictionary. You can be against anything you like, but not the existence of their sacred State of Israel, or other equally sacrosanct sacred cows.

That’s the world we live in. It is weird, I agree. But the Yetzer Horah makes people think very weird things. Sigh.


Who says we couldn’t have as many Yeshivos as we do, Kein Yirbu, without a state? And this, too, is not a heter. Would you be mechalel shabbos to make kollelim? So why is this aveirah different?.

We have no idea what G-d's plan is. All we know is what it says in the Torah, and that is, that having a State is lethal to Jews - it causes Jews to be killed like animals (that's a quote from the Gemora) and no number of Kollelim justify such a thing.

Furthermore, the State of Israel has caused the shmad of countless Jews who found in it a replacement for Judaism -- if it wasn't for the State of Israel we wouldn't have those secular Zionists who say that you don’t have to be religious as long as you're loyal to the State. Or worse yet, the Peretzes and their cronies who say that as long as you support the State that MAKES you a Jew.

Nor would we have the chilul Hashem caused by the State where the world thinks that the actions of Israel represent world Jewry, such that Jews are blamed for the illegal and immoral acts of Israel. (When Sharon was indicted for war crimes, he declared to the world "This is an attack on the State of Israel, and an attack on all Jews!" No, Mr. Sharon, it is not. It is an attack on you!)




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